Talk:Dveri/Archive 1

Archive 1

political position

I recent removed far right as the political position of this group. This was undone under the excuse that " they are not exactly famous for their position on economy". I find this excuse to be lacking. If one looks at their platform they almost sound like a far leftist organization, and indeed their commitment to social justice puts them on the spectrum of actually far left, albeit nationalistic left. For more explanations on what left and right is, I refer you to [1] (Lilicneiu (talk) 06:33, 6 February 2014 (UTC)). In their election campaign at 3:53 in this video, [2] they openly call for "all real socialists" to vote for them. Surely that's evidence enough, no? (Lilicneiu (talk) 06:48, 6 February 2014 (UTC)).

For one thing, what you are referring to are primary sources, which happen to be even more unreliable than usual in this case. Perhaps Dveri are also in favour of protecting the forests - but that would not make them a green party, would it? Secondly, we have other sources describing them as ""a small ultranationalist movement"" (Reuters, October 2012); "one of Serbia's better known far-right organisations" (BalkanInsight, August 2011); the "far right Dveri party" (Serbia Times, October 2013). There's even a French scholarly journal Balkanologie which published a paper in December 2008 titled "The Continuing Presence of the Extreme Right in Post-Milošević Serbia" which specifically singles out Dveri along four others as extreme right groups active in Serbia. Timbouctou (talk) 11:56, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

That is extremely incorrect. Just because some organizations make mistakes in labeling them as such does not mean that they are correct. They barely mention them in fact. Please get aquainted with Left-wing_nationalism, it's very obvious that these guys are similar to Milosevic, only more leftist than him, and hence it is absolutely improper to put them as right wing. You see, in serbia and croatia there is this problem where people automatically identify nationalism as right wing. So, groups such as obraz in serbia is basically a party that is not right wing, no, it's a party that is centrist, more or less fascist along the lines of the british BNP or hitler's guys. Dveri on the other hand are clearly left of center.

On a side note, your balkan insight link is dubious at best, as it says "20001", so we can clearly see that the authors are complete amateurs and unprofessional, like many people in the balkans are.

As to your note on them being green, indeed they are. Many oganizations that are leftist could be called green. It's a typical thing that the left has taken up. Quite noteworthy is for example Canada's NDP, they have lots of green stuff in their platform, and are hence green. Dveri are the first and if I am not mistaken only major organization in serbia that is openly against GMO, and guess which side of the political spectrum is into anti-GMO stuff? That's right, the left. Here, Moreover, the group exhibits quite a strong mobilizing potential, focusing on topics, which in some other political context would probably ‘belong’ to the protest repertoire of leftist groups. Thus, it was only Dveri, which protested against the imports of genetically modified food to Serbia. [3]

I tried to be reasonable with you, but you seem to not want to see much beyond your narrow scope. Hence if you revert my edit again, I will ask for help from the second opinion and moderation. (Lilicneiu (talk) 13:37, 6 February 2014 (UTC)).

Apart from your musings on what constitues far-right nationalism, you offered very little in the way of actual sources to justify your edit-warring. Dveri is almost never mentioned by pretty much any media outlet as being anything other than extreme far-right. Please do feel free to seek more opinions on the matter. Timbouctou (talk) 13:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Again, I refer you to the political compass to notice that many nationalistic parties are indeed leftist. As for your complete disregard of what I wrote - so be it for now. I have been advised to address this matter somewhere else first, so when I finish with that we'll come back to it here. (Lilicneiu (talk) 01:17, 7 February 2014 (UTC)).

This is ridiculous. It is not our job to go around investigating reality. I suggest you familiarize yourself with WP:OR. Timbouctou (talk) 01:24, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Actually, noone doesn't exactly define what our job is, so it is rather hard to tell what our job is and moreover, what it isn't. --biblbroks (talk) 16:24, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Not a political party

Dveri are not registered as a political party, as some users here seem to believe. See the registry of political parties in Serbia. Buttons (talk) 23:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

It is true. Still in the article noone claims its a political party but a political movement. They did run in the 2012 elections and they are running a campaign for the 2014 elections but a registred political party they are not. I updated your link Buttons to the new register at the Ministry of Justice who are in charge of the registry of all partys for the 2014 elections which clearly states all partys who are registred and aloved to enter 2014 elections.Stepojevac (talk) 11:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

To be more precise, they are a minor civic group which promotes far-right beliefs and refers to itself as a "movement" for propaganda purposes. And even though they function as a political party, they are keen on avoiding to be perceived as one (again, purely for their anti-establishment propaganda purposes) so they registered their electoral list as a civic group. Regardless - the fact remains they behave like a party, they run in for elections like a party, they organise rallies like a party, and they have a clearly stated political platform like a party. So the difference is pretty meaningless to everyone but them. Timbouctou (talk) 00:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

By me: I always wondered who writes this stuff?! First and after all, this is all untrue! You're all wrong! Dveri can't be put in any 'category', the same as 'Anonymous movement' can't be put. So, why you simply don't go and send them message on their official facebook page or contact them through their official site. They are nothing but the citizens who stands for traditional values and aspects of life (yes, they go in elections and in politics but just to put corumped polticians out of business because media is occupied and someone needs to speak for the people in parliament because THERE ARE NO REPRESENTERs of citizens in it,only politicians! It's not democracy! Dveri stopped riots and revolution, because people were lied on last elections, there was thievery of votes, they had more than 5%. Mine vote was stolen!!!). Politics is the least they are doing! So, I'm quite amused who makes this false stories and who is so PARANOID to write these nonsenses?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.150.71.214 (talk) 08:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Unsigned IP guy, I suggest that you be a little bit more focused on the subject. Electoral fraud in the last election does not really have much to do regarding what we are discussing, in my opinion.

I would say that absolutely nothing about them is far-right. Hence Timbouctou is wrong. Case in point, Bloc Party in Canada, [4] , obviously a very nationalistic party. Yet they are leftists. Dveri would be left of center, but they would also be north of the axis. I would say that they are similar in some ways to Katter's Australian Party which can be seen here on the graph [5]. Hence it is more than obvious that they are indeed leftists. On the serbian wikipedia there is currently a debate on this. I am interested in dealing with it there before I delve deeper into that here. (Lilicneiu (talk) 08:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)).

Again Unsigned IP guy: People, they are doing humanitarian work (I can't give you now all the info, simply they are not doing that for political points, and not many people here in Serbia or the world knows that, also I found that not too long ago - like building houses for families with more children 3+, so charity organizations), they have an internet radio called Snaga naroda (Power of the people) which is by my opinion the most free radio I've ever listened. They don't act as revolutionaries nor as opposition, nor as vandals, but as movement of loyal citizens of our country, culture, etc. so many times they are above all political fights and intrigues. And btw in this text about those Pride Parade day and everything what happened. They have tried to STOP that what happened (they knew what will happen and no one listened to them! And they went there to take away the people from bloodshed to try to bring them in peaceful family walk) but they've failed. They called them for a peace, others called the people for a chaos, crowd followed those who called them for a chaos, but still Dveri took many people from the streets and went to the church and prayed for "both" sides. They never called to any kind of aggression toward no one, they've never did anything against the law, they never spread hatred nor speak in chauvinistic tone, I hope that they are the future! And I am sure that they are something new, that's definitely. We never had it before. And you can think whatever you want, they are the Doors of loyal service trought the God to the people! They can be conservative, but not in way the western politicics gives conservatism as something out-dated but as something new; they are against EU, but they are not against European heritage and culture, nations or countries, it seems that they find EU to be false democracy, new fascistic and totalitarian super-state which destroys identity of the nations, and that is true. It's really a long story, but I'm not surprised by dirtyness of politician parties in the country toward them, becuse all political parties really shakes their pants because of these guys. Politicians here are politicians so they could get enourmous rich and famous, these guys are not like that. You can put them not left and not right in the middle between left and right, and you can put them in the middle of that cross. And when whole public stops to censor them as "far-rightist", "Authoritarians" etc. etc. we'll know for sure how down or up they are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.150.71.239 (talk) 05:58, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

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