Talk:East Berlin

Red Scare?

I suspect anti-communist propaganda in the paragraph that claims "The GDR was socialist but there was crony capitalism between SED executives"

Gibranalnn (talk) 03:57, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

There was a West German 'embassy' in East Berlin. Does anybody know:

• In which street it was located?
• What is the function of this building today?

Thanks! Meursault2004 01:10, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Hannoversche Strasse(?) intersection with chausseestrasse. other site of the street the hannoversche was Wilhelm-Pieck-Str. now Torstr. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:25, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

the exact address was Hannoversche Strasse 30, postal code 1040 Berlin/GDR. it was not called embassy because West Germany never acknowledged GDR as foreign country (though as independent state), so the name was "Ständige Vertretung" (translates as "Permanent Representation"). if you visit Berlin, you might as well check the bar with the same name at Schiffbauerdamm 8 ;-)84.151.174.79 (talk) 11:33, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Government?

Wasn't the Eastern border of Berlin, Communist? or was East Berlin just the border of all Communist satellites created by Stalin after World War II? Sandy June 03:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sandy June, not sure what you mean by that question. The eastern half of Berlin was the capital of East Germany, a communist country (and Soviet sattelite). What exactly do you mean by "Eastern border of Berlin"? --Jfruh 01:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

U. S. Embassy Office Berlin

The article suggests that the USA maintained an embassy in East Berlin. This is not true. There was no ambassador to East Germany thus there was no embassy. According to [1], "With the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the U.S. Embassy to the German Democratic Republic on Neustädtische Kirchstrasse 4-5 and the U.S. Mission in West Berlin located on Clayallee in Berlin-Dahlem combined to become the “American Embassy Berlin Office.” The formal transfer of the American Embassy from Bonn to the building on Neustädtische Kirchstrasse in Berlin took place on July 7, 1999 - marking the end of the transitional period in which the U.S. diplomatic establishments in Bonn and Berlin functioned under the formula “one Embassy, two locations.” ," thus the so called embassy in East Berlin was actually just an office of the actual U.S. Embassy in Bonn. Furthermore, a specific date is available for when some diplomatic recognition took place. [2] tells about the recognition of East Germany by the "Four Powers" and their support for both states to join the UN. "On 26 November 1972, agreement is reached on a Basic Treaty governing relations between the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic. The Four Powers announce their support for these two states to join the United Nations though emphasize that this would not effect their rights and responsibilities in Berlin." I assume that the United Kingdom and France also never actually maintained an actual embassy in East Berlin; I can not back up that assumption with any evidence. Trabant601 12:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The very quote you cite includes the phrase "the U.S. Embassy to the German Democratic Republic on Neustädtische Kirchstrasse 4-5". I.e., that's a US Embassy to E. Germany, which you said doesn't exist. --Jfruh 13:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Trabant601 seems a little confused here, possibly due to two facts:

• All the western allies, and many other countries, had embassies to the GDR in East Berlin, even though they did not accept that East Berlin was part of the GDR. Thus the US Embassy to East Germany was not, from the US perspective, actually in East Germany, only in its "seat of government."
• West Germany did not maintain an embassy per se in East Berlin/East Germany, but a diplomatic representation known as the Ständige Vertretung, because it did not recognize East Germany as a foreign country. (There's now a pub of the same name, located across the water from Bhf Friedrichstraße, catering to exile Bonners, of course.) While the GDR would gladly have opened a bona fide embassy in West Germany, which they regarded as a separate country, this was unacceptable to the BRD, and so both countries used this formulation.

So it was an unusual situation, but yes, the western allies all had embassies in East Berlin.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 10:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Reading Trabant's question again, the answer is simple. From the founding of the BRD, the US had an embassy in Bonn, the West German capital. From 1972, it also had one for East Germany in East Berlin, that country's seat of government. Upon German reunification in 1990, the East Berlin embassy ceased to be the US embassy to East Germany (as East Germany no longer existed) and formally became the Berlin office of the existing US embassy (in Bonn) instead; the US also has a large diplomatic compound in Dahlem (ex-West Berlin) where most consular functions are carried out. When the German government moved to Berlin, the "Berlin office" formally became the US embassy (as it was located in the capital), and the old Bonn embassy became the Bonn consulate; many of these changes were symbolic, although the US ambassador now lives in Berlin, rather than Bonn. In the future, a new embassy on Pariser Platz will replace the current Berlin building (which is small, located on a side street, and surrounded by ad hoc security barriers). Hope this helps.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 22:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The British Embassy is now located on its prewar site in Wilhelmstrasse. What was on this site during the DDR period? Did the DDR respect this site as British property? Adam 10:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

A) There was nothing on the site; the ruins were cleared in the 1960s (look at pictures of the Brandenburg Gate and Pariser Platz at the time of the Wall, there's nothing there). The area was rebuilt with new architecture in the dimensions of the old, beginning in 1994. B) Yes, they did, inasmuch as nothing was built on diplomatic sites, though this was a matter of some contention; officially, the area was part of the GDR's border area, and the land claims were left unresolved by either side. Prewar embassies in West Berlin were all bricked up or decommissioned and turned into the likes of cultural centers; West Germany was adamant about this, as no one wanted to imply that Berlin was sovereign territory or that either German state was a legal successor to the Third Reich and previous German states. Likewise, this was a big part of the reason why the western powers did not use prewar diplomatic buildings in the GDR; the British embassy was on Unter den Linden. (The USA wasn't thrilled about giving back its GDR embassy building when it opens its new embassy on the prewar site at Pariser Platz; I'm not sure offhand whether this has been resolved.)  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 14:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Where on UdL was the British embassy to the DDR? Also, my map shows the new US embassy as being on Ebertstrasse at the corner of Behrenstrasse - does it occupy the whole frontage between Pariser Platz and Behrenstrasse? (I must have walked past it but I don't recall noticing). Adam 14:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

a) Unter den Linden 32-34, quite close to the US embassy at Neustädtische Kirchstraße 4-5. b) Yes, it's the corner site, though the outer dimensions of the building and the adjacent road layout has had to be changed from the original plans for security reasons. c) You didn't notice anything because construction was delayed 10 years and has only begun in the last year. There is an image of the area here: [3] The building site north of the Monument to the Murdered Jews of Europe is the future US embassy. The roadblocks and security walls around the present embassy are also visible in the picture, as are the old and new British embassies.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 15:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Where was the prewar US Embassy? Adam 02:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Same site on Pariser Platz next tot he BB Gate where the new one is under construction, just as the British and French embassies were rebuilt on their prewar sites.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 09:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems a little surprising that embassies should have been given such absolutely prime sites in the centre of the city - the Russians on the UdL are another example. Adam 09:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The embassy sites have been there a long time and, as mentioned above, have remained sovereign property of the various states (there is an old story about how Bismarck forced the British to give over part of their site to the Hotel Adlon, hence it is smaller than the others and on a less prestigious site; this was not, as I hoped it would be, corrected with the rebuilding). "Prime real estate" is also a sign of respect and the importance Germany assigns to relations with these countries, and it is prime precisely because this is Germany's traditional diplomatic quarter. The Soviet (Russian) embassy is as big as it is for obvious reasons. The prewar Soviet embassy was on the same site, but was considerably smaller.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 10:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand the Italians and Japanese were out on Tiergartenstrasse (my next article perhaps), which was lucky for them since they didn't get blitzed as badly. Adam 10:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

As Germany's allies, their embassies were built, and were in use during, the Second World War, while those of the enemies were closed, and later badly damaged. The Tiergarten is Berlin's other diplomatic quarter, and most new embassies have been rebuilt there, including Mexico and India (alongside those two) and the Scandinavoan complex (nearby). Others, as I mentioned, were bricked up during the division of Germany, such as Spain and the Vatican, although these were in use during the war.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 10:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way Lustgarten could use some work. Adam 10:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Merger of Commandants of Berlin Soviet Zone

Agree, it should be merged! Superzohar Talk 13:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. - 52 Pickup 20:56, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Layout

Even on the narrowest possible screen the layout of this article is a total stuffup! You can't cram pictures and boxes into a fixed position without orphaning the text. Doesn't anybody ever use the Show preview? Don't the subsequent editors feel a cumpulsion to fix the mess?

Amandajm (talk) 02:05, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Corrections

in picture "Boroughs of East Berlin (as of 1987)": caption "Freidrichshain" should be "Friedrichshain"

Transportation

East Berlin controlled most of the transportation while the wal was up. The train were controlled by the East even in West Berlin. Also, while the street car tracks were taken off in West Berlin to promote cars, East Berlin still uses them today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gdelga2093 (talk • contribs) 23:42, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Unencyclopedic style

"It was very dangerous to cross because of the presence of armed guards that were trained to shoot people that attempted to cross"
Can anyone correct this?--Adûnâi (talk) 19:07, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

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Change short description

Currently, when searching up East Berlin, it comes up as "Soviet sector of Berlin between 1948 and 1990." This is misleading at worst and incorrect at best. It was the capital of the GDR, and just because it wasn't recognized by Western Powers is not reasonable enough to not describe it as such. If we were following such logic, we would have to change the pages for Pyongyang (capital of the DPRK) and probably other countries that I'm not immediately aware of. East Berlin was the legitimate capital of the German Democratic Republic, a legitimate nation. The Soviets pulled out of Berlin in 1949, and instead had military bases there, like other Warsaw Pact nations. It was not occupied by the Soviet Union. I hope you see my point, and I'm open to discussion further regarding this topic. -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 11:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

There is a complexity here. The Western Allies asserted throughout the Cold War that the post-WWII agreement that established the Four Power occupation of Berlin could only be terminated by mutual agreement of all four powers. This legal theory was important because it was the basis for the continued existence of West Berlin as a separate jurisdiction, and while West Berlin operated in many ways de facto as part of West Germany, there were a number of formal and sometimes practical ways in which it did not; the US/UK/France always treated it as an occupied territory, and to maintain that legal framework, it was important to them to assert that East Berlin remained occupied territory as well.

Obviously this a specific Western POV and as part of their own political project, the USSR and DDR strongly asserted that the occupation of East Berlin was terminated and the former Soviet sector was now (in the official formulation) "Berlin, capital of the DDR." The current short description is solely from the Western POV and I agree it needs to be changed, but a rewrite should also capture the legal ambiguity and disputed status to the extent possible in a few words. --Jfruh (talk) 17:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

So like, "Disputed capital of East Germany from 1949 to 1990"? -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 12:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)