Talk:East St. Louis, Illinois

Copyvio??

Some of the recently added text seems to be lifted from this article. That carries a tag ©2006 Village Voice Media All rights reserved. so we may not want to use that text as is. ++Lar: t/c 23:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

History

What's up with the history section?Wandering Star 16:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The History section is lifted, verbatim, from here (interestingly enough, same website as the above noted potential copyvio). I'm going to try and rewrite it soon.

On another note, the "East St. Louis Riot of 1917" portion of the article is a verbatim copy and paste of another wiki article (which is tagged as in need of a clean-up).

For those two reasons, and few others, I'm tagging this article as in need of a clean-up.OverlordChris 22:32, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I've just reverted copyvio part of that section (and added some). Fortunately, it won't be a problem in Japanese wikipedia, since I didn't include any of problematic parts into translated article, ja:イーストセントルイス.Yassie 03:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It needs more factual material as well as clean-up. Very poorly sourced. It needs much more about the relation of industry and jobs; there is little explanation or discussion of early 20th century history. --Parkwells 16:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a great place to live!

The history page is garbage. (39 blacks were killed on the July 2 riots, not in the May riots) and I'll try to rewrite it when I have time. If you want a solid history, try Rudwick Race Riot in ESL or McLaughlin Power, Community and Racial Killing in ESL. Or hell, quote from here: http://www.riverweb.uiuc.edu/IBEX/nunes/esl%20history/race_riot.htm. Im writing my thesis about the riot (student at Duke)

There must be more documentation on the riot than this - it's just journalistic sensationalism. I did some minor work on the separate article page on the riot, but it needs more substantiation and historical perspective.--Parkwells 16:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

History needs expansion

The article jumps from 1917 to after the peak in the 1950s. The city and its residents deserve more acknowledgment of history before the restructuring of the latter part of the 20th c.--Parkwells (talk) 22:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

John Bowman

The link goes to a different John Bowman. What's policy? 217.132.11.23 15:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture

That picture makes East St. Louis look way too good. I don't think that justifies what you normally see there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.249.214.142 (talk) 02:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree - it's unlikely to be typical of what the article notes.--Parkwells 16:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Some pictures here http://rue89.com/2008/05/20/east-saint-louis-ville-rayee-de-la-carte-des-etats-unis (88.160.235.252 (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC))

The African American population is the majority is should not be listed second

The African American population is the majority is should not be listed second. So it should be listed first and changes were made from second to first. The numbers were not altered just the positionOperationmajoritypower 19:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Citations

The footnotes or citations in the second paragraph of the riot section don't work. Standard in-line citations should be provided.--Parkwells (talk) 21:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

19xx?

"In 19xx the state imposed a financial advisory board to manage the city in exchange for a financial bailout. Gordon Bush was elected mayor in 1991. State approval in 19xx of riverboat gambling and the coming of the Casino Queen riverboat casino provided the first new source of income for the city in nearly 30 years."

This bit reads uncannily like the opening scroll from an early-'80s Capcom arcade game. 19xx? Seriously? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.223.230.30 (talk) 21:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Monsanto

I'd like to see info about how Monsanto and other companies have polluted the environment, etc., and by incorporating the land their buildings sit on into separate cities have lost East St. Louis millions of dollars in tax revenue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.221.155.90 (talk) 20:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Find a link to the information that's not opinion. There's information about Saguet, IL (originally Monsanto, IL) and how Monsanto incorporated it close to East St. Louis in the 1930s due to ESL's problems. This alone, however, does not provide adequate citation for your claims. Also, while your claims may be true, the non-POV can't make it seem like these companies caused ESL's problems. Personally, I think they may be a very small, almost negligible part of what caused ESL's downfall. Neil618 (talk) 18:10, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Beautiful City Award

Wasn't the city recognized as "America's Most Beautiful City" at some point in the 30's or 40's or so? I cannot find any verification of this, but i recall both hearing and reading this thoughout my life —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.132.137.101 (talk) 03:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

White Flight

East St. Louis underwent textbook white flight in the 60's and 70's (now the population is nearly 100% African American) and was a major factor in shaping what East St. Louis is today. The history section really only alludes to it, but this was probably just as significant as any economic change or the freeways in contributing to this area's decline.

I wonder why the "Great Migration of African Americans" from the rural south--due to rural econmomic blight--is considered a migration and not an exodus while the migration of White Americans away from E. St Louis--due to urban economic blight--is being labeled as an exodus and not a migration. This article needs a re-write for balance and consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.127.181.211 (talk) 18:52, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I came here from Places_in_the_United_States_with_notable_demographic_characteristics, where it mentions that East St. Louis is the most African-American city in the US over 10,000. The article doesn't mention how or why this happened; besides the above comment, I might have guessed that it was always a very predominately African-American city, and I still only the vaguest impression of what it might have been in 1900 or 1950 (10% African-American; 50%?)--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

It is the largest riot in American History in terms of black lives being lost.

Incorrect, New York City draft riots during the Civil War killed more. Will delete accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.52.117 (talk) 17:21, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

East St.Louis Review

This section reads like an editorial. There is a small amount of crime information, which is certainly appropriate for an article on this city, but it reads and is written like an opinion piece. The small amount of info the section imparts is far outweighed by the POV writing. Even the title implies it is an opinion. I think it needs to go. Gtwfan52 (talk) 18:14, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Keeping up-to-date

This article states in the firefighter section that X amount of firefighters "will be let go in May 2013." If nothing else, tense should be changed, assuming that happened. It goes on to say a "current" number on staff at the fire department, which most likely needs to be revised as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.216.179.113 (talk) 01:01, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

"according to the FBI's 100 most dangerous cities list"

So I was reading about crime in East St. Louis, and saw what this article has to say on the subject. However, I cannot find any reliable source for the claim that East St. Louis has the highest crime rate in the United States, and from what I can gather, the FBI hasn't released a "100 most dangerous cities" list. Of the actual newspaper publications that reviewed FBI data and compiled lists of their own, I'm not finding any that place East St. Louis in that position. Is this just an unsupported claim which should be revised or removed? --Azure Anteater (talk) 07:21, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

I vote remove. Main reason I watch this page is to look out for people inserting weakly sourced stuff on how terrible it is. Gary, Indiana, and Detroit have similar problems. John from Idegon (talk) 07:55, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Now, under crime statistics for violent crime per 100,000 are given with no attribution. The next citation refers to a news article that has nothing of substance to do with ESL, but rather supports the statistics and comparison with Honduras's murder rates. I propose to flag the first sentence under Crime as needing citation. Calwoodian (talk) 17:49, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Reorganizing History section

I propose that the History section is separated by only two headings: Early History and Modern History instead of the current arrangement. NYC draws the line around 1860. I'm thinking this way within these headings there can still be sections for certain centuries if there is enough content.

Thoughts? Calwoodian (talk) 16:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Move the article back to "East St. Louis, Illinois"

This article should be moved *back* to its original title of "East St. Louis, Illinois", as this is the standard convention for cities in the U.S. that are not listed in the AP Stylebook as not requiring the state modifier/disambiguator. cf. WP:PLACE. CitizenKang414 (talk) 02:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)