Talk:Ed Thorp Memorial Trophy

Edit Needed

In its current state this article literally makes no sense. There is no mention in the first two paragraphs about the fate or present whereabouts of the trophy, or that anything unusual happened to it, but the third paragraph starts with "A prevailing theory of what happened was"... Huh? After an out of context short paragraph about the original NFL trophy and some replica trophy that the Washington Redskins have, comes information that directly conflicts with the earlier paragraph about the possible fate of the trophy and the Minnesota Vikings. That information, about the trophy in possession of the Packers Hall of Fame, is confusing and garbled and contradicts several other statements in the article. It brings up more questions than it answers and is written in such an unclear way that it's impossible to understand.

Someone with more knowledge than I have on this subject, and a clearer understanding of what has actually happened with this trophy, or just some idea of how to write clearly and organize information in English, really needs to edit this article and clear up the jumbled confusing mess it is currently. Mingusal (talk) 22:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

I have made some edits fix the confusions you are references. If there is anything else you thing needs to be looked at, please tell.Tapper930 (talk) 05:09, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Most Recent

The Green Bay Packers are in possession of the trophy, but the Minnesota Vikings are the most recent recipients of the award if I understand correctly. But if you make the argument that the Packers are the most recent recipient because they trophy apparently stopped circulating, this would conflict with other information in the article, including the statement directly above in the sidebar that the Packers won the trophy 8 times, and the entirety of the sections on "List of Ed Thorp Memorial Trophy winners" and "Total trophies won."

TL;DR: Either the statement that the Packers are the most recent award recipient should be changed, or the rest of the article should be changed. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsb36 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

This is where it is confusing in itself. Due to the fact that the Packers kept the last true trophy in 1939, they thus have received it most recently. However, if you go off of the symbolic victories, the Vikings won it most recently. Thus, it all depends on which form we are looking at: real, or symbolic.Tapper930 (talk) 05:09, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

First Thorp Trophy

According to a Q&A article on Packers.com (the official website of the Green Bay Packers), they are in possession of what may be the original Thorp Trophy. It lists all the winners from 1934 NY Giants to the 1951 LA Rams. Entrybreak (talk) 16:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ed Thorp Memorial Trophy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/65r52lUNU?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballresearchers.org%2FCoffin_Corner%2F04-12-119.pdf to http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/04-12-119.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:42, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Image Deletion

I would like to ask why the image at the top has been put up for a speedy deletion. There has been one added without any reason for the deletion. If the reason for the candidacy does come up in the next three days, I shall take the candidacy off of the page.Tapper930 (talk) 19:58, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

As I noted at File talk:Thorp Trophy.png, there are two potential copyrights for that image: the trophy design, and the photo itself. WP:NFCCP#1 requires that "no free equivalent" exists, and while presumably there is no free equivalent for the design, a free equivalent for the photo of the trophy could be created or obtained. Levdr1lp / talk 18:44, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Clarifications

1. The NFL Championship is the equivalent of the Super Bowl, not the NFC Title game.

2. There is no proof that any trophy was awarded after 1939, as none have been found. A source has been given.

3. There are sources that state the trophy itself was not awarded after 1939.

4. As the trophy was never believed to be in the hands of the Packers Hall of Fame Inc., "True location" is a better name than "Rediscovery".

The sources already given describe these reasons and others. Some links are not working at the time, but the writers of the NFL sites say they will be back up eventually.Tapper930 (talk) 02:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that (English) Wikipedia had no mention of the Ed Thorp trophy at all until September 2011‎, when I added text to the Overtime_(sports) article regarding the NFL's early tiebreaker/overtime rules, quoting the New York Times. Seems that for a time, if the NFL Championship Game were tied when time ran out, that was that: co-champions. A coin flip decided who got to keep the trophy. Some other editors filled in information regarding the trophy, which apparently slipped from the public consciousness for decades. WHPratt (talk) 03:35, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Paragraph duly removed. It was me. In regard to your last sentence... those editors filled in wildly implausible and unsourced speculation (is it realistic to assume that 1. the maintainers of the trophy would fill in empty slots for a trophy that was never awarded? 2. the league never had a trophy at all from 1940 onward?), and my speculation was no less plausible. Still, I'm not going to exchange in tit-for tat. If we don't have any documentation of what happened between its disappearance (or even when it did disappear) and its rediscovery, we shouldn't put false "facts" to fill in the gaps. That goes for me and anyone else. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 11:41, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

FURTHERMORE... the one source for this entire section is a single dead link, which I traced to the Internet Archive to a grossly biased Q&A article on the Packers Web site that doesn't contain most of what is claimed in that section, other than the Packers Hall of Fame having possession of the trophy. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 11:47, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

I will agree that two links, currently, are dead. However, the NFL is in the process of fixing them and states that they will be fixed soon. As for what was on the links, many of the statements that you are making JMyrleFuller can be answered with these articles written by historian Cliff Christl. There are two articles written by him that answer many questions.

In addition, the trophy would have ended up with the "Packers Hall of Fame Inc." which is responsible for the "Packers Hall of Fame". I will also add that much of your additions do not follow link, such as your final paragraph addition. Overall, you don't add anything that follows sources given.Tapper930 (talk) 19:10, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Trophy's Possession

We are going to set this straight. The Packers never refused to give the Ed Thorp trophy away. They were also the last team to earn it. According to the sourced article, the league stopped awarding the trophy after the 1967 season. This is why the league started using the name Super Bowl in Super Bowl III instead of World Championship Game.

If you are going to make a change, make sure that it follows with the sources that are shown on the page. There is no credible source that states the Packers refused to give up the trophy. Tapper930 (talk) 14:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)