Talk:Edgar Kain/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I intend to start reviewing this Friday or over the weekend Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Earwig's has a pretty high percent, but it looks like the site it links to copied from us Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Most of the duplication from the axis history forum site is from the early iteration of Kain's Wikipedia article. I'm not sure if that particular post on the axis history forum is supposed to be a "What if..." scenario but if not, then it has some grievous errors; it puts Kain in Finland for a few months in 1940 which never happened and gives a date of death that is two months out! Zawed (talk) 23:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• do we know why he joined the RAF, as opposed to the Royal New Zealand Air Force, which would have been around based upon my understanding of dates?

• It is not clear why Kain specifically joined the RAF over the RNZAF, but the former will have been seen as more glamorous at the time with better aircraft with the bonus of being able to see to more of the world. In the mid/late 30s the RAF was also doing an a bit of a campaign in the Dominions with various schemes to attract flying personnel so it would have also been well known as an option for young men wanting to fly. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• maybe explain what a fighter ace is defined as in this article somewhere?

• The term Flying Ace is linked, and I have also added an explanatory note to the main body of the article. Zawed (talk) 09:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "when the Battle of France and the Low Countries" I've never heard it called that, would suggest either 'battle of France' or 'German invasion of France and the Low Countries'

• Rejigged as suggested. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "He spent only three years at Christ's College and left in 1935 without graduating." do we know why?

• Academic reasons - have expanded on this. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "It was his intention to obtain an "A" pilot's licence " could you link somewhere or otherwise explain what an "A" pilot's licence is? I doubt a 'lay-reader' would be familiar with it

• Did away with the reference to "A" pilot's licence, just refer to pilot's licence along with a link. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "short-term commission in the RAF" is this the same as the "short-service commission" referred to below? If so, perhaps standardise between the two

• Ooo, good catch. Fixed. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• maybe link Basic military training?

• Done. Zawed (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "By this time, his proficiency in aerobatics was becoming noted" was noted by who?

• This is a combination of the source not stating and also overreaching on my part. I have toned down. Zawed (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• probably just my ignorance, but you say "he soon soloed in a Tiger Moth" and later "was soon flying the Blackburn B-2 trainer"-- what's the difference?

• Made consistent. Zawed (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "Cobber, partly to distinguish him from one of his fellow pilots at the squadron, named Derek Kain, who was also a New Zealander and a distant relative. His nickname, New Zealand slang for a friend, was also a reflection of his friendly and outgoing nature" I'd recommend rearranging to put Cobber and "NZ slang for a friend" closer together

• Yes, good call. I have rephrased as per your suggestion. Zawed (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "The Munich Agreement resolved tensions " -> "the Munich Agreement in Date"? It was the same month unless I'm mistaken, so maybe 'at the end of the month' or just 'late september'?

• Rejigged as per suggestion. Zawed (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "In fact, he had been promoted to flying officer earlier in the month" I thought he was already confirmed as a flying officer?

• The earlier reference to flying officer was an error, it should have been pilot officer. I have fixed this now. Zawed (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "By now Kain was flying as a section leader " I'm not aware of that rank-- perhaps you mean Squadron leader, perhaps it's a gap in my knowledge?

• Not a rank as such, but a position of responsibility. To help explain, I linked section. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "there was little initial contact with the enemy during the winter months[...]Then, on 8 November". Unless I'm mistaken, there wouldn't really have been many winter months in France before 8 November (I don't think there would have been any)?

• Yes, I see your point. Have removed reference to winter months. Zawed (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "on leave with Joyce Phillips" worth a red-link, or below WP:NFILM?

• She was a theatre actress, not film, (have added theatre to description of her) so have not linked for now. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "Fortunately the flames went out " perhaps remove 'fortunately', seems a bit like editorializing

• Done. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• " In mid-March, he was informed of his impending award of the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC). The first such award to a pilot of Fighter Command, the DFC was in recognition of the action earlier in the month during which he had shot down his first Bf 109. However, he promptly took ill with German measles and was hospitalised for several days." suggest " In mid-March, he was informed of his impending award of the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) in recognition of the action earlier in the month during which he had shot down his first Bf 109. It was to be the first such award to a pilot of Fighter Command. However, he promptly took ill with German measles and was hospitalised for several days." this will attach the reason to the DFC and make it clearer why 'however' is merited?

• Rephrased as per your suggestion. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• "expected fighting in France did not eventuate." not positive 'eventuate' is the best word here. My simplistic self would prefer 'emerge' or 'occur'

• Gone with 'occur'. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• I find it odd you never link to Phoney War in the article body, despite mentioning it by name twice in the lede

• Have added to first para of the Phoney War section. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• Actually, I have rejigged this a bit more. Zawed (talk) 08:39, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• IMO you don't really substantiate that he became "household name in Britain" in the article, merely that he was well-known

• Have rephrased to tone this down a little but have mentioned media and the Dominions as well. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Very very nice article, just a few comments, most of which are subjective. Feel free to discuss/ask for clarification/disagree on any/all of these points. Best wishes, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:27, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I am presently working through the comments above and will indicate when completed/responded. Zawed (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891, I have finished off the revisions resulting from your review and have responded as above. My edits are here. Hopefully it is good to go now. Thanks for your time in providing the feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Zawed, Thanks, I think the article is much better. Give me a bit to check referencing and other things and I'll comment back here soon Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Assuming good faith on offline sourcing, Heavy reliance on Burns, but I don't see that as a problem for GA, the source appears reliable. All sourcing appears reliable, and all references I spot-checked supported the text they should. I'm by no means an image whiz, but they all seem to be appropriately licensed. This article meets the criteria discussed earlier in the paragraph, and otherwise meets the GA criteria. Passing. Best wishes, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)