Talk:Edgar Lee Hewett

NPOV and references need fixed

Three books were previously listed as references for this article. None of the text was referenced inline with the text, so no one knows what information came from which book. I started fixing this, but some of the material in the article I can't locate at this time. This needs to be fixed by someone familiar with the references cited. I also added another journal reference. All references are now included inline, and should be placed additionally throughout as necessary.

Also, I dispute the neutrality of the section titled "Hewett the academician". The author has offered a strong POV about Hewett's works and writings. This should be changed, or at the least, properly cited and offered as a quote from a published expert's opinion from a verifiable source. Overall a good start to this article, but needs better inline citations and to follow NPOV guidelines in some areas.

Also, if possible, a photo would be nice. SqlPac 16:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I know the books well, and will do what I can to align the references; your alignment is not entirely correct. The statement about the "patronizing yet respectful" tone of Hewett's writing echoes widespread analyses of his work in any number of sources; it's hardly non-NPOV. As for the photo, please feel free to "be bold" and install one yourself. I've had no luck in finding anything in the public domain on this, despite some inquiries with the New Mexico museums that have big Hewett collections. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, I actually ran across this one while researching another article and found it very interesting. My point on the "patronizing yet respectful" tone statement is that if it is echoed that widely and is available from any number of sources, it should be a simple matter to put in quotes and attribute it to one or two of them. The way it's written currently it looks like it's the author's opinion, and not really a fact that was sourced from a verifiable source. Very good article by the way. I'll see if I can locate a picture - I know some people who know some people who might be able to get something :)

By the way, images published originally before 1923 AFAIK (according to Wikipedia) are in the public domain. See PD-US and Talk:PD-US. SqlPac 18:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Image added. The image I added is originally from the Museum of New Mexico, which passed it on to the National Park Service Archeology Program. The photo was originally published in 1898, so copyright has expired. Fair use rationale was added, as well as notice that it was published originally before 1923. SqlPac 19:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I've added a pile of references and removed the ref tag. Please review. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 03:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks really good! You are the king of Hewett references :) I recommend we submit this for peer review and see what others think? SqlPac 15:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 04:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Requested peer review. SqlPac 15:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed NPOV

I removed the NPOV. I see the reference was added to verify the statements about Hewett's work. Thanks, much appreciated. SqlPac 04:18, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

InfoBox

I added the infobox to the article, but I'm not thrilled with this generic infobox format. I'm considering creating an infobox template more specific to Archaeologists, like the one for scientists. What do you think? Would this article, and others about archaeologists be better served with an Archaeologist-specific template? Or is the generic template good enough? SqlPac 15:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the generic one is good enough, at least for this article. The "research" that Hewett did wasn't ultra-significant in the field of archaeology; his political and cultural contributions are the thing that justify an article on him, not his science. Accordingly a generic biographical infobox strikes me as more to the point. Is a better infobox needed for archaeologists as a whole? Dunno, not my field, and as a matter of style, when reading an article I usually gravitate toward the text, not the infobox, anyway. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Point taken. I just thought it might be more appropriate to have an infobox that summarized important contributions, awards, etc., of archaeologists. The scientist template doesn't really seem to fit though, but the generic should be good enough for now. Thanks. SqlPac 16:14, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Birth

Based on below, which is Edgar's oral history, he was born November 23, 1865 in Warren Co., Illionis. The Census records can be very frustrating. There were Hewetts in Warren Co in 1860--1880, but no Edgar Hewett.

An Edgar L. Hewett went to South America and Europe several times. I don't think there was another Edgar living in Santa Fe, NM. Europe

• March 4, 1924 an Edgar L Hewett returned to the United States on the SS. America and said he was born November 23, 1865 in Warren County Illinois. His residence was Santa Fe NM. His wife was listed as Donizetta (no birth date 52 years old born Augusta, IL).
• December 17, 1926 he returned on the SS George Washington and his birth and residence was as before. His wife was listed as Donizetta (born Oct 7, 1868 in Hancock Co. IL).
• December 5, 1930 he returend on the SS George Washington and his birth and residence was as before. His wife was listed as Lonizetta (born Oct 7, 1868 in Hancock Co. IL).
• August 22, 1939 he arrived on the Laconia. His birth information was the same as before. His residence was listed as 116 Lincoln, Santa Fe. His was listed as Bonizetta (70 born Augusta IL).

South America

• He landed in New Orleans in 1911 (no birth listed), 1912 (birth Illionis), California in 1934 (birth Warren, California),
• 2 Dec 1937 he and his wife Donizetta arrived in New Orleans (giving same info they supplied in 1924)

I could go on :) --Rcollman 12:03, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very useful. (Ancestry.com? I use them from time to time.) I'll touch up what you added, but you did the heavy lifting. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks,and yes it was Ancestory. I was looking up Hewett reference to the origin of the name "Navajo". Those census records have driven me crazy and I recognize the problem. I still can't find him in IL in 1870 in Warren County, only somebody in Nebraska. When I looked for Hewetts in 1860 in Warren Co. IL nothing matched. Oh well, not my family.  :)--Rcollman 02:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Old Peer review

It looks like the peer review was accomplished (apparently a while ago), in an automated fashion. Here are the results:

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

•  Done Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
•  Done Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.^[?]
•  Done See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.^[?]
•  Done If this article is about a person, please add {{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}} along with the required parameters to the article - see Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.^[?]
•  Done Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.^[?]
•  Done Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.^[?]
•  Done Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
  • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
•  DoneAs done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]^[?]
•  Done Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 02:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look when I get an opportunity. SqlPac 03:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Fixed a couple of items. See list above. SqlPac 04:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I've given this a thorough going-over and believe all of the above issues to have been addressed. Time for another peer review? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

More Recent Peer Review

Here's the results of a more recent peer review, available at Peer Review of Edgar Lee Hewett. Some minor formatting inconsistencies, a few questions about specific quotes. Here's the info:

Request for Peer Review: Several changes were made to this article since the last peer review, based on peer review recommendations. Requesting a second peer review to help move this article along to WP:GA status.SqlPac (talk) 16:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Yannismarou

• MoS inconsistencies. Do not wikilinkg single years only full dates: year-month-date. Instead of -- , use —.
• Try to have at least one citation in each paragraph.
• "Hewett's time at the head of the Normal School can be viewed as generally successful." By whom? Sources?
• "a practice that, in the eyes of Hewett's many critics, would characterize and compromise much of his later writing as well". Who were these critics? Cite.
• "Roosevelt's first use of the Antiquities Act was not to protect." Why italics?
• "a base for his increasingly professional (if still controversial)". Why controversial?
• "Another factor had to do with Hewett's own personality. He had many supporters, but also many critics, and some of the latter complained that his real goal was to ensure that he, Edgar L. Hewett, D.Sc., Director of the School of American Research, would have access to, and control of, the Plateau's sites -- while his rivals would not." But you don't refer to his personality, his character, but to the accusations of his critics (having to do with his motives and not with his personality). If there are any interesting features of his personality leading to these accusations, mention them.
• "Hewett remarried in 1911, to Donizetta Jones Wood, who would survive him." This is not about his academic life. Maybe you should place it somewhere else. Possibly when you speak about his first wife's death.
• "His 1943 book Ancient Life in the American Southwest, cited below, amounts to a rehashing of a lifetime of archaeology without contributing anything new, and most of it could have been written at least 20 years earlier. Its tone also strikes the modern reader as annoyingly patronizing to (yet still respectful of) the people he studied, but Hewett was, after all, a product of his times." The whole phrasing here looks to me uncyclopedic and hardly in terms with WP:POV.
• Maybe a "Legacy" section, speaking about what's left to us from his work and efforts would be useful. If there is anything left ...
• In line sources (for example the one in citation 10) are not properly formated. Make use of these useful templates: Template:cite web, Template:cite news, Template:cite encyclopedia, Template:cite journal, Template:cite book.
• I see no pages in citation 3.
• The article is a bit poor in terms of pictures. Could there be any improvement?
• "Hewett's interest in Frijoles Canyon was timely, for Adolph Bandelier had just started to describe, through both scientific papers and his novel The Delight Makers, prehistoric life on the Pajarito Plateau." Is the prose here OK? "Prehistoric life on the Pajarito Plateau" refers to The Delight Makers?

In general, the article looks comprehensive, informative and the prose seems to be fine.--Yannismarou (talk) 17:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Javascript review

The following suggestions were generated with the aid of a semi-automatic javascript program:

• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months, days of the week or single years without accompanying dates should not be linked generally. Single years without accompanying dates, decades, and centuries should only be linked if they provide context for the article.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Autoformatting of dates, years with full dates should be linked; for example, if January 15, 2006 appeared in the article, link it as January 15, 2006.^[?]
• Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
  • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”

Thanks, DrKiernan (talk) 13:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

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