Talk:Edge of Tomorrow/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 23:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Resolved

• Vrataski had this ability in a recent battle but lost it after receiving a blood transfusion. She tells Cage that they must hunt the Mimics' hive mind, the Omega.
  • Please choose to disambiguate to group mind (science fiction) or swarm intelligence. Viriditas (talk) 04:16, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Images

Resolved

• File:Edge_of_Tomorrow_Poster.jpg; OK. Viriditas (talk)
• File:Doug Liman avp 2014.jpg; OK. Viriditas (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• File:EdgeOfTomorrowMimic.jpg; Working... Viriditas (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
  • OK. Viriditas (talk) 20:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
• File:Tom Cruise avp 2014 2.jpg; OK. Viriditas (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• File:London IMAX cinema 2.jpg; Suggest replacement. Poor image, and considering the wide availability of better images located in Category:IMAX London, I'm curious why this one was chosen instead. Viriditas (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• File:Emily Blunt avp 2014.jpg; OK. (more than OK; be still my beating heart) Viriditas (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Expanded the rationale of the screenshot, replaced the theater one. igordebraga ≠ 00:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

@Igordebraga: please see this discussion for suggestions regarding the mimic image. Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Replaced it. Hope the rationale is OK as well. igordebraga ≠ 01:17, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. Caption was slightly off, but I fixed it. See the criteria section for details. Viriditas (talk) 20:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

Resolved

• OK. Viriditas (talk) 04:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Lead

Resolved

• Added narrow no-break space HTML char. to fix the bold/italics space problem before the footnote. Big improvement.[1] Viriditas (talk) 22:32, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• Doug Liman directed the film based on a screenplay adapted from the Japanese light novel All You Need Is Kill by Hiroshi Sakurazaka.
  • As the reader, I want to know the year of publication without having to click on the link. Viriditas (talk) 22:34, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• Description of plot in the lead is a bit clunky and wordy. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• The production company 3 Arts Productions bought rights...
  • Redundant. Just say, "3 Arts Productions bought rights..." Viriditas (talk) 22:38, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
    • Isn't it bad practice to start a sentence with a number? That's why I added the buffer wording. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 03:48, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
      • Does that proscription also apply to proper nouns? Viriditas (talk) 04:39, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
        • Hmm, it may not. I can't find any clearly reliable sources on the matter, but this says "3M hits..." is questionable. We could just change it to "In late 2009, 3 Arts Productions..." to circumvent the matter entirely. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:47, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
          • Sounds like a plan. Viriditas (talk) 21:01, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
            • @Erik: are you going to make this change? Viriditas (talk) 21:35, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• The lead looks good at the moment. I might have some further suggestions later, but I think it's good to go for now. My only concern is the genre, and I've covered these concerns in this brief discussion. My argument is that the film is a work of military science fiction, adapted from a work of military science fiction. As the link to that discussion shows, military experts recognize it as a work of military science fiction. In my experience, most reviewers aren't all that familiar with the genre, so it's not surprising that most sources don't mention it. Viriditas (talk) 06:20, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • The book's article list it as Military science fiction, think I'll put it there too.

Plot

Unresolved

• Unresolved issue: In the german version of the film the dam where the omega is supposed to hide is said to be located in Switzerland, not in Germany as stated here. See the German wikipedia page: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_Tomorrow The dam is Lai da Curnera https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lai_da_Curnera Is this different in the english version of the film or an error on the english wikipedia page? Sz70 (talk) 23:52, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
  • It's stated as being located in Germany in the english version. Quite clearly. Also, the picture of Curnera dam you linked to does not fit the picture of the damn shown in the movie. According to imbd trivia it's a cgi dam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puppydog1985 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
• Plot length is 707 words, which is seven words over the limit specified in MOS:FILMS. Viriditas (talk) 23:18, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• She tells Cage that they must hunt the Mimics' hive mind, the Omega.
  • I think it reads better to say ,"She tells Cage that they must hunt the Omega, the Mimics' hive mind." Viriditas (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• Unintimidated by his officer's uniform, she curtly asks what he wants, as she had numerous times on previous loops, and he simply laughs.
  • The meaning is lost here, since the bonding between the two of them on the way (and at) the farmhouse isn't discussed in the plot summary. Viriditas (talk) 23:18, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Noting here: As mentioned below, the Plot section has been reduced to fit the WP:FILMPLOT limit. Seven words over the limit is not much, but I can see why it's best to be within the limit for a WP:Good article review. Flyer22 (talk) 16:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

My point wasn't so much to say "this can't pass because it's over the limit", but to simply point out the word count. Having looked at the plot section, it's pretty simple to get it down under the soft limit. Viriditas (talk) 21:03, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

It's OK, rewriting to shorten also gives a chance to make the text clearer (a must for such a short summary!). igordebraga ≠ 00:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

In its current form, the plot summary is not "clearer," just trivial: it doesn't manage to bring out anything about why this storyline is actually interesting or reveal things that a casual viewer might have missed but that add to the reasons why it's valuable as a piece of visual literature and not simply a fluff action flick. I tried to address this in an early-December revision, which of course put the words over the limit. Rather than seeking to pare back the words, however, the helpful community decided (as always) that it was best to simply revert to the previous version. Increasingly, it's becoming impossible to add value on Wikipedia because so many fanatics revert anything and everything without much concern for what merit may have been present in the (sometime significant) work that was done. As a result, over time, Wikipedia is becoming more static and less interesting rather than a place to find worthwhile insights. It'd be nice if some of you who have time to monitor pages so they can be instantly reverted on a whim instead found time to consider the revisions and see how they might be improved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsamans (talk • contribs) 13:46, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Jsamans, I'm sorry that you feel that your contributions were ignored. However, the plot summary is supposed to be straightforward. WP:PSTS says, "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source." This means that we should not be trying to demonstrate why the plot is "actually interesting" or to "reveal things... missed" or to show why "it's valuable as a piece of visual literature". We need to use secondary sources to indicate the value of this film among others at this particular point in history and culture. If you think it is trivial, it sounds like the plot summary could use less detail in describing the film so readers can have context for how secondary sources address the topic. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Erik, I don't "feel that" my contributions were ignored; I'm not interested in whether you may be sorry or want to empathize. When changes are reverted rather than being pared back or subjected to further editing, those changes have in fact been ignored. It takes substantial time to compose edits, but anyone can and will erase those effort on a whim, returning things to whatever came before. Moreover, this is done without having the account for whether that prior version itself offered any substantive value according to the same standard used to justify the reversion. Setting aside how little sense it makes that having less detail of the primary source material somehow provides superior context in which to consider other secondary sources, the deference paid to whatever came before, however poorly written or even inaccurate, produces a calcification within this environment that ironically is making Wikipedia less likely to ever be updated substantively than the periodically published, static encyclopedias that preceded it. That may amuse who flit from article to article clicking "revert" as the mood strikes them, but it does little to advance human conversation or understanding. Jsamans (talk) 16:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Cast

Resolved

• OK. Viriditas (talk) 23:20, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Production

Resolved

Development and writing

• The film was directed by Doug Liman based on a screenplay adapting the 2004 Japanese light novel All You Need Is Kill by Hiroshi Sakurazaka.
  • Obviously, you've got this sourced later in the article, but since it appears in the lead first, and in the production section second, at least source it here. Viriditas (talk) 04:02, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• Copyedits to "Development and writing". Please review.[2] Viriditas (talk) 04:13, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• In early 2011, the screenplay was revised to improve the third act, which Warner Bros. found weak.
  • It's unclear if you paraphrased that from the cited source or from another one in the article. If it's from Vulture, then perhaps revisit it. The problem is, it sounds more like a rumor rather than a verified factoid. "We’re told, however, that a new draft of the Kill script has resolved this to the studio’s satisfaction". We're not really told, however, why it is "weak". And who revised it, was it Harper? If there's another source that talks about this, then great, include it and expand it. However, if it is only Vulture, considering rewriting it or removing it. Viriditas (talk) 05:13, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• The studio initially approached Brad Pitt to star
  • Was there ever a followup source indicating why they went with Cruise instead? Viriditas (talk) 05:15, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• Copyedits to "Development and writing", please review.[3] Viriditas (talk) 05:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• Doug Liman is linked three times previous to the fourth instance: in the lead, in the infobox, and in the production cast section. Right below it, he is linked again. Is this necessary? Viriditas (talk) 06:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
• Christopher McQuarrie is linked in the infobox, in the production cast section, and then linked again below it. Is this necessary? Viriditas (talk) 06:48, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Same is true for Butterworth and Stoff. Overlinking in play. Viriditas (talk) 06:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
    • You can see why I went for removing that list outright. And I'd better do it now! igordebraga ≠ 16:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
      • That is not a reason to remove the crew list. We can remove the links from the section's text so it is consistent with the "Cast" section in having linked names in the cast list. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 16:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
      • I've removed all in-text links in the "Production" section that already existed in the crew list. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:04, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Filming

• Though the director initially did not want a beach set built, the production had one built at the studio site.
  • Not sure who you are talking about. Liman? Viriditas (talk) 07:27, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
• The Saunton Sands in North Devon were also used for the French beaches, while receiving a digital extension of the sea as there was little visible water and no surf at all.
  • Rewrite this for clarity please. Please also remove the "little visible water" as I think that's a misinterpretation of the source which says, "The Saundon Sands location was a big wide beach, with a little water visible at one end, but there was no surf at all. That was all added in for the production. So there was a lot of ocean spray, surface and water interaction in Houdini fluid and water simulations as they came ashore or landed from the DropShip in shallow surf." Basically, the main point is: "Filming of the French beach scenes also occurred at Saunton Sands in North Devon. Due to the lack of surf, artists digitally extended the sea." Since this is about visual effects, it appears to be in the wrong section. Of course, you can separate the location filming and post-production. Not a big deal if you keep it where it is. Viriditas (talk) 07:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
• Source said nothing about "averting how many science fiction films use" the saturated bleach bypass look,so I removed the science fiction film part. Viriditas (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Battle suit design

• OK. However, I removed the header linkout to powered exoskeleton and moved it inline where it belongs. If, however, the link went to, for example, "powered exoskeletons in film" or "powered exoskeletons in science fiction", then I think it would be more appropriate in the header. Viriditas (talk) 07:43, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Visual effects

• OK. Viriditas (talk) 07:02, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
• Aside from a practical build for a crashed ship on the beach head and a gimbal set to depict the plane used by Cage's squad, most ships were digital models, that had some of Imageworks' heaviest detail for both the camp scenes where actors walked closed to the ships and depict a realistic destruction on the crashes.
  • Please clean this up; the English is very poor. Viriditas (talk) 20:18, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    • Did everything so far. 16:56, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
• Copyedits, please review. I think this section is done. There were a number of problems here. One, there's no need to keep repeating "visual effects" in relation to the job role when VFX is the standard term. Two, you mentioned "SPI" without ever first making it explicit after the first full usage. I fixed both instances of this in the above diff. Third, I fixed tense, eliminated redundancy, and removed inaccurate or ambiguous wording while referring to the original source. "Sculptor's model" sounds weird and unfamiliar; "early model" sounds much better. Keep it simple. In at least one instance, you forgot to place a citation at the end of a quotation, which I remedied (even though it is repeated subsequently; sucks, but that kind of source repetition for quotes is a rule for GA articles). I also removed unnecessary adverbs, which are used far too often in this article and should generally be removed on sight. Finally, I added an internal link and copyedited the Prime Focus World material from the source. Viriditas (talk) 07:02, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Music

• OK. Please review these copyedits. I've removed the overlinking of the composer, the needless words and redundancy about the composer, and I've turned an unnecessary quote into a paraphrase. Know when to quote and when to paraphrase. Viriditas (talk) 02:18, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Release

Resolved

Marketing

• OK. See copyedits; OVERLINKING removed (Stoff and Viz Media already linked); redundant words removed ("film was promoted at...and it was promoted at"); release and retitled condensed and redundancy removed (you already mentioned the light novel name above it, no need to repeat it for the second time); copyedits to Tough Mudder detail (remove redundancy, source doesn't say anything about "military delinquents"). Viriditas (talk) 06:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I added "military delinquents" to be clear about what "J Squad" was. We can use another description, but we don't even mention J Squad in the plot summary. It is added wording for context. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 12:28, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
    • Good point, Erik. Does someone want to take a crack at adding more about J Squad? Otherwise, I'll add it to my list of closing comments, as it won't impact the review. Viriditas (talk) 02:24, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Box office forecast

• OK. Please review copyedits. The caption was misleading, so I changed it to the original used in the image. Viriditas (talk) 06:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Theatrical run

• OK. This is intended as an executive summary of the subsequent sections, I presume? Viriditas (talk) 10:04, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Opening weekend

• Why do you mention Maleficent as a competitor twice? You write: "Edge of Tomorrow competed against Maleficent starring Angelina Jolie, which opened the same weekend in 46 territories." Then you write in the next paragraph: "Edge of Tomorrow faced competition from Maleficent and X-Men: Days of Future Past and ranked third after the two films in many territories." Why not combine the first instance into the second like this: "Edge of Tomorrow faced competition from Maleficent, starring Angelina Jolie, which opened the same weekend in 46 territories, and X-Men: Days of Future Past; in many territories, Edge of Tomorrow ranked third after the two films." Of course, if that's not what you intended, then leave it, but it sounds strange to see it repeated. Viriditas (talk) 10:04, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Second weekend

• The read here is a bit choppy in places. I was thrown for a loop when I read, " Major performances were..." That sounds very colloquial. Is "major performances" the correct term or phrase here? Otherwise, the section is OK. Viriditas (talk) 10:18, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Subsequent weekends

• OK. Viriditas (talk) 10:18, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Home media

• OK. Viriditas (talk) 03:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Reception

Resolved

• Copyedits; please review. Viriditas (talk) 05:34, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
• OK. Viriditas (talk) 03:20, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Social commentary

Resolved

Gender roles

• This section is OK. A little quote heavy, but a few things stopped me from reading:
• "This was the extreme idea of what I ever thought I'd want to do"
  • I'm not exactly sure what this means, and looking at the source, it isn't exactly clear either. Since by definition, all drama is an "extreme" version of what we would normally do in RL, to me at least, the quote is a bit superfluous and almost serves to make her look unintentionally weak as it almost reinforces the gender stereotype. I found it odd; others may not. Viriditas (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• Lutes said the film's hero Cage was strengthened by her work
  • The film's hero Cage? The wording here is a bit breathless. Viriditas (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Comparison to video games

• Director Liman said..
  • That's odd wording, similar to the breathless bit above. Is this a Wikipedia convention for film articles? I don't recall seeing it used outside of Wikipedia. I suppose if you don't know Liman is the director at this point, you probably don't know what's going on anyway. Viriditas (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    • I probably wrote that. My thinking was that if it is a new section, then figures should be re-identified in full. Like we state Emily Blunt and Tom Cruise's full names, and from the context, we can surmise they are actors. If someone happened to jump to that section from the TOC, "Liman" may not be clear enough. He's not an auteur/famous director, and the context does not really show what role he had. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

• Wired '​s Angela Watercutter said Hollywood had been trying to produce films based on video games for years and that Edge of Tomorrow showed merit for studios to try basing films on video games' narrative structure.
  • Close paraphrasing here, and it loses the meaning of Watercutter's point in the original, namely that the film succeeds because it isn't based on a video game, but on the narrative structure of a type used in a videogame. That's why she says those films that were based on videogames "should’ve been based on videogames’ narrative structure". Read it again and see if you can't rewrite it. Viriditas (talk) 03:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

See also

Resolved

• @Erik: is this an appropriate use of the "see also" section per MOS:FILMS? Yes or no will do. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:54, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
    • Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 20:14, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Notes

Resolved

• Changed voice and removed overlinking. Viriditas (talk) 09:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

References

Resolved

• Cohen, Sandy (June 4, 2014). "Blunt Reveals New Toughness in 'Edge of Tomorrow'". bigstory.ap.org (Associated Press). Retrieved June 4, 2014.
  • Checklinks says this ref is expiring soon. Please use an archiving service. Viriditas (talk) 04:22, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• Formatted and fixed duplicate refs.[4] Viriditas (talk) 21:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Hmm, Harper and Harold's names should not belong. I think the general consensus is to limit credits in the infobox to what is official, unless there is a strong case for someone to be recognized (e.g., being blacklisted at the time). It seems best to remove their names and keep it to McQuarrie and the Butterworths for the infobox. Harper and Harold are covered in the article body. Igordebraga, did you add these names, or did someone else? Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 21:49, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • No, I didn't. But if WGA\official credits are the way, removed 'em. igordebraga ≠ 00:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    • FYI... according to the page history, the material was added by Inwind on November 23.[5] Because of this, I would really like to see GA articles semi-protected for the duration of the nomination and review. Viriditas (talk) 03:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
      • I would prefer to have the main information in the infobox, including the original screenwriter - even if he is not mentioned in the credits. May be a note should be maintained in the infobox. Inwind (talk) 09:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
        • I'm pretty sure that the consensus is in favor of limiting it to the official credits while deferring to the article body for uncredited work. In my experience, there can be a lot of screenwriters for certain projects. Anyway, I've given the note approach a try here, Inwind. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
          • perfect! Inwind (talk) 14:34, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• Formatted the "Afterword" book cite. Viriditas (talk) 09:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

External links

Resolved

• External links are duplicated in the references. I've asked Erik to take a look at this per WP:MOSFILMS. Viriditas (talk) 04:38, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Resolved per this discussion. Viriditas (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   Production section needs copyedits

   Done

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   WP:OVERLINK

   Fixed

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citations to reliable sources:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Image under review (see also comments above)

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   "Box office forecast" caption was misleading; I've changed it to the original image cpation

   Alien caption referred to "mineral shard", but this slightly deviated from the source; also, obsidian is not a mineral. I restored the text from the body.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   After extensive (but mostly minor) copyedits, I believe the current version meets the GA criteria. To the nominator: I highly recommend going through and reading this article this again. As you do, make a note of the most significant points in each section and check to see if they are mentioned in the lead. If they aren't, please update accordingly. I think the current version of the lead is passable, but improvement is possible. Thanks for your patience. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Tried to fix everything (even reducing the plot to 690 words, am only unsure on the new lead). Waiting for new requests. igordebraga ≠ 03:16, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but I won't be finished with this review until at least Monday night HST, at the earliest. Viriditas (talk) 03:32, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, getting close to closing this out. Not quite there just yet, but very close. Please be patient, as my time has been very limited this week. All that is left is the production and release sections. Viriditas (talk) 02:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

What else is necessary, Viriditas? After all, I've done everything you listed above that's not marked with an "OK"... igordebraga ≠ 02:42, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you have, thank you. However, I haven't finished reviewing the production section. Hopefully, I can do it right now without any interruptions, as I'm back home and ready to finish this thing up. Viriditas (talk) 05:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Done. See above. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)