Talk:Edogawa Ranpo

The romanization "Rampo" ruins the joke. What's the deal? Exploding Boy 17:49, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

That's how it's pronounced, cf. Yojimbo. 惑乱 分からん 02:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well yes, but that's not how it's "spelled" (in kana). There's a reason it's Ranpo. And hey, look at that. It took over a year for someone to respond... Exploding Boy 02:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Hepburn_romanization#Syllabic_n, appears that the "m before labial consonants" rule is outdated, but as a name, it might still retain the older spelling? 惑乱 分からん 11:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Name spelling

Anybody who knows anything at all about Japanese Literature would strongly disagree with calling him "Ranpo Edogawa" because Japanese family names come first. Edogawa Ranpo (or rampo, I dont' really care about the spelling) is a pseudonym meant to sound like "Edgar Alan Poe," which is completely lost if you put the arbitrarily titled "family name" first. I don't understand why it is getting changed. KyleSchulz (talk) 18:05, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

See WP:MOS-JA#Names of modern figures. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Agree with KyleSchulz, this is a policy being slavishly and incorrectly applied in this case. Шизомби (talk) 04:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

"Boy Detective's Gang"

That English is saying there is one boy. But the sentence says there is a group.
So the English should be "Gang of Boy Detectives" or "Boy Detective Gang".
If we want it to sound stiff and "Japanese", then "Boy Detectives Gang" is acceptable.
Is there not an official English rendering of this already somewhere?
Varlaam (talk) 15:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

"Detective Author’s Club" has the identical problem. Varlaam (talk)

The spelling, again

The MoS states in the General guidelines section: "4. Syllabic n ん is generally written as n before consonants ..., but as n' (with an apostrophe) before vowels and y."

In the Syllabic "n" section, it states:

The original version of Hepburn used m when syllabic n ん preceded b, m, or p. While generally deprecated, this is still allowed in titles for cases where the official anglicized name continues to use m (examples: Asahi Shimbun, Namba Station). In the modified Hepburn romanization system, unlike the standard system, the "n" is maintained even when followed by homorganic consonants (e.g., shinbun, not shimbun). Use Google to check popularity if in doubt, and create a redirect from the n version.

So is there any reason not to move this page to "Edogawa Ranpo"? "Ranpo" returns 7,380 hits from Google Books, while "Rampo" returns 3,340. There's clearly no preponderance of usage that would dictate going with the "m" spelling. CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 02:10, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm a little late to this party, but since Rampo's name is now strongly established as "Rampo" in Western media, shouldn't it be reverted to Rampo? The only recent publication I can find with the name written as "Ranpo" is a translation published in December of 2012. "Rampo" even nets twice as many Google hits. I know there is some contention because the Rampo transliteration "ruins the fun" for some people, but the name of this article seems to be going against the tide as far as the Romanization of Rampo's name is concerned, especially since academics who publish his translations and even a film use the "Rampo" Romanization.わかんねぇさ (talk) 06:33, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 23:23, 6 March 2013 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Edogawa Rampo → Edogawa Ranpo – WP:MOSJ#Syllabic "n". GBooks 6,870 > 3,360. Brought up a few times earlier but with no clear move request; consensus still seemed to be in favour of a move. Relisted. BDD (talk) 18:13, 27 February 2013 (UTC) elvenscout742 (talk) 05:16, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Collapsing discussion from sock of indef blocked editor

*Oppose - The author spelt his name like this on the book he published during his lifetime (the one translated with Harris, "Japanese Tales of Mystery and Imagination"): “ A brief description of the manner in which this book was translated may also prove to be of interest, for it was undertaken under unique conditions. Edogawa Rampo, while fully capable of reading and understanding English, lacks the ability to write or speak it. On the other hand, the translator, a Eurasian of English-Japanese parentage, while completely fluent in spoken Japanese, is quite unable to read or write the language, as he was educated solely in English schools. Hence, for each line translated, the two collaborators, meeting once a week for a period of five years, were forced to overcome manifold difficulties in getting every line just right, the author reading each line in Japanese several times and painstakingly explaining the correct meaning and nuance, and the translator sweating over his typewriter having to experiment with sentence after sentence until the author was fully satisfied with what had been set down in English ” so that was clearly the way he intended to spell it. Mysterious Island (talk) 15:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Please see Hepburn romanization#Syllabic n: this author wrote so long ago that during his time the standard Hepburn Romanization was different from what it is now. His primary intent was obviously to bring Edgar Allan Poe to mind, and the way Wikipedia currently writes Japanese fits his intention better than the "m" spelling. Also, consensus among the WP:RSs as above. elvenscout742 (talk) 13:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose: Google seems to suggest that "Rampo" is the preferred form overall ("Ranpo" variant). Google Scholar is divided on the issue ("Rampo", "Ranpo"), but it seems that the award uses the "Rampo" variant exclusively over the "Ranpo" variant. And if the sockpuppet's statements are true, then it means that Hirai himself preferred to write his pseudonym as "Edogawa Rampo" when writing in English.—Ryulong (琉竜) 14:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Are we seeing different results? Your above searches brought up 95,300 hits for "Ranpo" and only 90,800 for "Rampo". Additionally, you forgot to exclude Wikipedia results from your search: 98,500 > 81,300. Also, you GScholar links seem to indicate a 3:2 majority against the current title. Your search for the award also included Wikipedia, and the majority of the results on the first page just indicated that English Wikipedia and a bunch of its mirrors like Weblio currently favour "Rampo". The organization itself doesn't appear to give an English name anywhere on their website,[1] and so it's down to how external organizations like Wikipedia choose to spell it, with a couple of noteworthy sources including the Japan Times and the University of Iowa on the "Ranpo" side. The cover of this book appears to be the most reliable source in favour of the "Rampo" spelling of the award, but the book appears to be entirely in Japanese, and the decorative English text on the cover was likely selected arbitrarily by the publisher, as Kodansha tend to do. (They might have even borrowed the spelling from English Wikipedia.) Amazon sell the same book but they apply the English title "Edogawa Ranpo Award Winners Anthology". Basically, it seems to me that English Wikipedia came up with the name "Edogawa Rampo Award" because English Wikipedia also uses the spelling "Rampo" in this article. Of the two sources cited in Edogawa Rampo Award, one of them is in Japanese (and the name is improperly romanized in order to fit the article) and the other is a Japan Times article written after the Wikipedia article and well after the other article I just cited. Additionally, I would be loath to trust anything Mysterious Island said in opposition to me: he never edited any articles related to Japanese literature before coming here (and Talk:Yoko Ogawa) to oppose me, and my point that Ranpo himself lived in a time when the standard Hepburn system required him to use an "m" is not invalidated. elvenscout742 (talk) 04:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

English Wikipedia having unilaterally invented the name "Edogawa Rampo Award" is supported by the fact that the latter Japan Times article currently cited actually calls it the "Edogawa Rampo Prize". That's why I misprinted on the above comment. elvenscout742 (talk) 04:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (the second)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Edogawa Rampo → Edogawa Ranpo – WP:MOSJ#Syllabic "n". GBooks 6,970 > 3,110. Brought up a few times earlier but with no clear move request; consensus still seemed to be in favour of a move. I nominated this six months ago, and (disregarding a sockpuppet that was harassing me) there was one bewildering oppose !vote that I roundly disproved, but I was forced to leave Wikipedia shortly thereafter and RM seemed to die with me. The above arguments still apply, so I'm re-RMing now that I'm back and here to stay. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:04, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment see Talk:Emperor Jimmu for a set of related renames under discussion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

If they really were related I would have included this one. But this is so unlike all of them that, had I done so, I would have suffered harsh criticism. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Comment someone made a note about this at the other RM request... WP:MOS-JA#Syllabic "n" -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:19, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

You're wrong. Please see my response to you on that RM. And please stop hijacking hundreds of RMs on subjects you clearly don't know anything about without carefully reading the arguments presented in said RMs. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:49, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

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