Talk:El Mozote massacre

Evangelicals?

According to Mark Danner, who is an authority on this massacre, the fact that the people in the village of El Mozote were largely Evangelicals is of some importance. I can't find any reference to this fact in this article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.146.188.99 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 24 August 2005

Yes, see the full article here http://www.markdanner.com/articles/the-truth-of-el-mozote

There are two main passages, the latter being the description of the repeated rape, torture, and murder of an evangelical girl (which is of "some importance" because the guerrillas were so fascinated by her faith, and therefore drew out her death and remembered her in particular later).

The former is here

"The guerrillas' support in Morazán had grown largely in soil made fertile by the work of Catholic liberation theology, but El Mozote had been uniquely unreceptive to such blandishments, for the hamlet was a stronghold of the Protestant evangelical movement. People had begun to convert as early as the mid-sixties, and by 1980 it is likely that half or more of the people in El Mozote considered themselves born-again Christians; the evangelicals had their own chapel and their own pastor, and they were known — as were born-again Christians throughout Central America — for their anti-Communism. "Everyone knew there were many evangelicals in El Mozote, and these people wouldn't support us," Licho told me. "Sometimes they sold us things, yes, but they didn't want anything to do with us." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.59.153.5 (talk) 16:01, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Guerilla views

I do not agree with the guerrilla inspired views of an outsider. The author of the article might be knowledgeable in the subject, but he was not here. Most foreigners fail to recognize the fact that the Department of Morazan, the province where the supposed Army massacre took place was crawling with guerrillas and their supporters. They also fail to recognize that most people in El Salvador credit the guerrillas for this massacre. Why? Because these organizations have always been in dispute, and El Mozote and other massacres were results of rivalries between the guerrillas. They also fail to report how guerrillas killed civilians who did not support them or paid their "war tax", and how the soldiers themselves were tortured and mutilated when they valiantly did not give up their rank and renounced to their place in the Salvadorean Armed Forces. Please note that the Guerrillas had a better propaganda tool than the government, sadly the Salvadorean Authorities could never match the isurgents' ability to "inform" the outside world. That being said, if Salvadoreans believe what is said in this article, they either support the guerrillas, blindly believe what our Education System teaches them or simply were not here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.249.202.96 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 6 December 2005

It is possible to support the truth without categorically supporting the guerillas. It is simply untrue that most Salvadorans attibute the massacre at El Mozote to the guerillas. In eight years of living in El Salvador, I never met anyone who seriously held that view. Most notably, I posed that very question to Legislative Assembly member Roberto d’Aubuisson, son of the founder of the ARENA party by the same name, and even he attributed the massacare to the Salvadoran Army.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.155.190 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 10 December 2005

Interesting, is he not the son of the founder of the Atlacatl Battalion that is believed to be responsible for the El Mozote massacre.

How more credible can the confirmation that Government forces, not guerillas were responsible.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.241.121 (talk) 03:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Seryously, Did you thought about what you have typed here? There is PLENTY OF EVIDENCE that the Guerrillas HAD NOTHING TO DO with the massacre, and all the responsibility falls only on the Atlacatl Battallion of the Salvadoran Army. I could cite the section on the Thruth Comission report where they categorically and decisively, with aid from american archeologist and forensics, state that the sole responsible for the massacre was the aforementiones batallion. There are some first hand accounts, that obviously can't be put in this wiki, unless someone makes a book about it, that the Guerrillas IN FACT warned the residents to flee because the Salvadoran Army was going to launch Operation rescue on those days. Since the vast majority of the population was evangelical, and had the guerrilla's ideals as "devil things" or "heresies", they didn't listen to the warnings, and stayed in their homes instead, hoping that their neutrality would be considered by the Army. Obviously it was not. So, you can't talk nonsense like that WITHOUT EVEN going to the place in question, having interviewed the people involved, and disregarding the testimony of the sole survivor, Rufina Amaya.

--190.62.78.198 (talk) 22:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)Atlacatonatl

Style

Please sign your comments with ~~~~ and please don't put ugly lines acrioss this page. It is not wikipedia style, SqueakBox 17:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Give me a break

The Reagan related claims are garbage. The U.S. did NOT support the death squad fascists. We did NOT support the commies either. We supported the Christian Democratic Party. Modern propaganda has led many people to believe that there were only two sides in this conflict. We supported the PDC and because of this they received 54% of the votes in El Salvador's first free election (over the ARENA and the FMLN) only three years after this massacre. This success was the work of the Reagan administration. 67.171.43.170 23:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

There actually is a lot of evidence that the Reagan Administration was complicit in the actions of Salvadoran death squads. [1][2]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.110.49.135 (talk • contribs) 12:48, 11 December 2006

The US government did not support the Atlacal Battalion but did provide organizing and training at the School of the Americas, how exactly does that work? LamontCranston 13:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

It's well documented that Reagan supported the Death Squads -- see "Turning the Tide" by Noam Chomsky for extensive commentary on the available evidence. 173.3.41.6 (talk) 21:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Original poster of this section is in denial, plain and simple. The evidence is very thorough, even the SOA and pentagon have basically admitted to it and apologized. 68.193.173.240 (talk) 04:00, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Photos

I posted those original photos, and I have higher resolution images... somewhere. When I dig them up, I'll tag them appropriately. Rojazz 07:53, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Updated the photos with better versions that I took when I visited El Mozote about 4 years ago. I'll be reading through the Danner book again and will be working to touch up this article, shortly. Efrojas 21:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

School of the Americas

I couldn't decide on the best place in the article to insert the fact that of 12 officers cited for the massacre, 10 had attended the School of the Americas (source: Frances T. Farenthold. "U.S. has no business training foreign thugs," USA Today, April 11, 1994, 9A). What seems to be the most logical spot? I was looking for a section mentioning the citation of 12 officers, but if it's there, I've missed it. Please advise on my Talk page.Lawikitejana (talk) 01:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced

The article was marked as unreferenced as far ago as in 2007 so per verifiability all unreferenced content must be cleaned up. Perhaps someone will then add sources.Luis Napoles (talk) 09:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Enders link is wrong

It points to a German Thomas Enders.--88.66.250.250 (talk) 13:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

ARCHIVED TEXT: THE MOZOTE MASSACRE by Mike Hoyt

The following is archived text retrieved from archive.org. It is no longer available on the web, as far as I know, with the exception of archive.org's page and google's cache. As such, I am producing it here for posterity purposes, should those copies be lost.

::redacted for copyright reasons::

This may also be of interest: Journalism Under Fire: Reporting the El Mozote Massacre by Kris Kodrich

TPaineTX (talk) 03:01, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the above full-length reproduction of a CJR article, as it appears to me to be a copyright violation. -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:57, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Number of Victims

Why is there such a discrepancy between the number of victims cited in the infobox (733-900) and the "at least 1000 civilians" mentioned in the intro? Any data to corroborate any of these figures? Cromag ^{talk to me} 16:23, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Um, well, there is a list in the back of Mark Danner's book totaling the number of victims. The problem is we cannot obviously enumerate a definitive list. I think the above should be "around 1000" or "at least 800". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.59.153.5 (talk) 15:49, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Uncited Claims

There are a number of serious claims, including allegations of rape, that are uncited. 99.231.200.55 (talk) 13:19, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

That's why they're marked "(citation needed)". - SummerPhD (talk) 16:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyvio?

Large portions of this bear such a close resemblance to this document (see p 105 ff) that it is difficult not to suspect copyvio. Kevin McE (talk) 11:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Leftist slant

There is the usual leftist slant on this wiki article. wp losing credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.32.0.193 (talk) 16:26, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh dear, we are making those who pray at the feet of St. Ronnie cry. Please grow up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.59.153.5 (talk) 15:52, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I think there is a very rightist slant to this article. Reagan and Abrams plus several other nasty characters role in this and its cover-up is grossly minimized. ( Reagan, I believe, was a tool due to mental problems even early in his term. I remember discussing at the cafeteria every morning the new Ronnie gaffe. When he thought he was in WWII, I knew he was just a figurehead.) 2601:181:8301:4510:856B:E632:BD3E:41E3 (talk) 00:28, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Reagan claim in lead section

I pulled this claim from the lead section, as it appeared to be linked only to a copyvio source of the original text: "As news of the massacre slowly emerged, the Reagan administration in the United States attempted to dismiss it because of its reflection of the human rights abuses of the Salvadoran government, which the U.S. was supporting with large amounts of military aid."

This is also a big claim to be sourced only to "Covert Action Quarterly". Since it appears many large, mainstream publications have discussed the massacre, can we find a better source? I'll poke around some myself this morning, and see what I can turn up. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, see here http://www.markdanner.com/articles/the-truth-of-el-mozote

Search for the names "Elliot Abrams" and "Deane Hinton". Check out the book as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.59.153.5 (talk) 15:57, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

References

Cut-pasting

A large number of phrases, sentences and sentence structures of this article appeared to have been lifted wholesale from this source. I've cleaned these up, and will also be making an effort over the next few days to source what I can from the article and remove unsourced material that I can't find a reliable source for. As a controversial event in both Salvadoran and US history, this strikes me as an article where good sourcing is essential. Any help would be welcome! -- Khazar2 (talk) 22:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

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New revelations

Can information related to these new revelations be added to the article? 76.189.141.37 (talk) 01:12, 27 January 2020 (UTC)