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Talk:El Salvador at the FIFA World Cup

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Stevie fae Scotland in topic GA Review
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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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GA Review

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Latest comment: 1 year ago10 comments2 people in discussion
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This review is transcluded from Talk:El Salvador at the FIFA World Cup/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Stevie fae Scotland (talk · contribs) 17:01, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply


Just to say, I might pick up on some things that wouldn't work in British English but are fine in American English so please let me know if that happens.

Lead

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  • First sentence is redundant, that is what I would expect from the article title. You would be better starting off with something like: "The El Salvador national football team have qualified for the FIFA World Cup on two occasions." Then go on to explain briefly about their history. I'd say you don't need to mention every match they've played but it's only two tournaments so that's probably fair.
    •  Y Done
  • Is there a source which says they are considered the worst or one of the worst nations to compete at a World Cup? I'd imagine if they are ranked 80th of the 80 different countries to qualify then someone will have said it at some point so it may be worth including.
    •  Y Added

Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:04, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Record at the FIFA World Cup

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A few issues with the table:

  • I'm not sure on the use of colour. I was always under the impression that colours shouldn't be used in tables for decoration so I would be inclined to remove them. MOS:ACCESS talks about use of colour for infoboxes and navboxes but not tables.
    •  Y Done
  • Per MOS:FLAGS, you will need to specify the country name next to each flag. Not everyone knows what each flag is so it would be useful to state this. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams#Competitive record for an example of this.
    • I disagree on this. The Belgium, Peru, and Scotland national team pages are Featured Articles and display the flags like they are here (as do ever other national team page). Additionally, they are flagicons so users can click on the flag and be taken to the country's page.
  • For sourcing the statistics in the table, either place a citation in the title header of the table or add Sources: [citation] at the bottom. The sentence before it doesn't need sourced as it just states what the table is so it's more appropriate to add sources in the table or underneath. This also make it more obvious to readers what the information being sourced is.
    •  Y Done
  • The El Salvador's World Cup record collapsible table is unneeded as all of the information within it is contained more appropriately within prose elsewhere in the article.
    •  Y Done
  • By match table, I would add a line to say: El Salvador's score is shown first in each case. I know it's probably obvious but it clears up any confusion.
    •  Y Done
  • Record by opponent table, I don't see the need to denote that the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. Anyone who doesn't know that can click on the link and read about the team. It's also very misleading to say "Soviet Union is now Russia". I know you mean that Russia is considered the direct successor but the Soviet Union and Russia are two different things. El Salvador have not played Russia at a World Cup so it's irrelevant to mention Russia anyway. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:04, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
    •  Y Done

Results

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  • This section should really be called history and be above the Record at the FIFA World Cup section as it contains all the relevant information as prose that the reader will be looking for. It should also include brief summaries of failed qualification campaigns as they are relevant to the topic.
    •  Y Done
  • El Salvador entered qualifications for the FIFA World Cup for the first time - the word "qualifications" doesn't work in this context. Either change it for "qualifying" or, and probably the better solution, just link directly to "FIFA World Cup qualification".
    •  Y Done
  • During the first round of qualifications - same as above. I'd highlight that they are in the CONCACAF section here as well so maybe something like "During the first round of CONCACAF qualifiers".
    •  Y Done
  • El Salvador played four matches: two against Suriname and two against Netherlands Antilles. El Salvador advanced to the second round with three wins and one loss. - Could be explained that they were drawn into (and won) a double round-robin group with Suriname and Netherlands Antilles to help the reader better understand the qualifying process.
    •  Y Done
  • Honduran citizens birth - should be Honduran citizens by birth or from birth (whichever is appropriate in the circumstance).
    •  Y Fixed
  • Reports were made that hostility between fans was present during the match. - by who?
    • "There were reports of hostility amongst rival supporters." Cable p. 662
  • A third leg was held - Explain why a third match was needed both times. I initially assumed the aggregate score would decide the tie but that isn't the case so I can see other readers making the same mistake.
    •  Y Done
  • defeated Haiti 1–2 - List the winners score first in this circumstance. People don't normally say that they won 1–2, they would say they won 2–1 even for an away match. You establish that it's an away match anyway so there's no need for extra clarification.
    •  Y Done
  • Navboxes should be at the bottom of the article but more so, they should be bidirectional and link back to the articles they have been placed on. The squad navboxes don't do this so shouldn't be on this page. You've linked to the squad anyway so it's already covered in the prose.
    •  Y Fixed.
  • El Salvador lost its first match - Football teams are groups of people so I would use they instead of it as the pronoun.
    •  Y Fixed
  • The FIFA link in the group table needs to be properly referenced per WP:CITE. Bare URLs are a good start for referencing but a good article should use best practice and properly cite sources. To be fair, the majority of sources on this page are properly cited.
  • I don't think you need to duplicate the match results as footballboxes in this section when you also have a table with all six of them anyway. If the attendance/referee/kick-off time is important enough then it can be added to the table and you've already discussed opposition scorers in prose. These footballboxes also don't properly cite sources.
    •  Y Fixed.
  • in the El Salvador's history - Don't need "the" here.
    •  Y Fixed
  • were scored by Tibor Nyilasi, Gábor Pölöskei, László Fazekas, József Tóth, László Kiss (who scored a hat-trick), and Lázár Szentes. - Clarify that Nyilasi and Fazekas scored twice like you have with Kiss's hat-trick.
    •  Y Fixed
  • Meanwhile, Luis Ramírez Zapata scored El Salvador's lone goal in the 64th minute; his goal which remains the only goal ever scored by El Salvador at the FIFA World Cup - Have the second part of this sentence as a separate sentence rather than using a semi-colon. The word "which" isn't required either.
    •  Y Fixed
  • and result El Salvador conceding more goals - missing "in" between result and El Salvador Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 15:29, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
    •  Y Fixed
  • Source 9 says the third goal scored against Honduras in Mexico was by Mauricio "Pipo" Rodríguez, not José Quintanilla.
    •  Y Fixed
  • Clarify that Valdivia scored twice for Mexico in the prose.
    •  Y Fixed
  • Would it also be possible to add some background details about why El Salvador didn't compete until 1970 qualification? Doesn't have to be too in depth, I assume it's just that they weren't FIFA members so it would be as simple as saying they joined FIFA in 19whenever which made them eligible for competing. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 16:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
    • No source says anything on the topic.

Records and statistics

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Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
  1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. Mostly well written, a few minor spelling/grammar issues to address.
  1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Almost, issues listed above.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
  2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Spot check on sources 5, 9, 14, 17 and 20 revealed minor issues, listed above.
  2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). I wasn't familiar with FB Refence but it appears reliable so no issues here.
  2c. it contains no original research.
  2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. Checked with Earwig's Copyvio Detector
3. Broad in its coverage:
  3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. Covers El Salvador at the finals well, I would include more details of the failed qualification campaigns though.
  3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). See above
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. No evidence of any edit wars or content disputes
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
  6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. Only image is a public domain image.
  6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
  7. Overall assessment. Overall assessment is that the article is almost there. You've done a lot of great work so far and after some modifications, the article will be good to go. Placing on hold to allow for this to happen.

Thank you for all your work so far on this article. If you have any questions about the comments I've made, just ping me here and I'll be happy to answer them. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 16:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Stevie fae Scotland: Responses and comments made. PizzaKing13 ¡Hablame! 22:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
@PizzaKing13: Thank you for this, it's much appreciated.
Re-flags: that's interesting as the Scotland article was previously compliant with MOS:FLAGS. I hadn't noticed that change but as you've pointed out three featured articles which fail MOS:FLAGS, I'm more than happy to update them if you can tweak this one as well.
Re-FIFA source: unfortunately this is a big problem in football articles where, not only are bare URLs used, they don't appear in the list of references. I'm happy to leave it as the bare URL if we can include the FIFA sources in the bibliography. I feel this would be easier than adding full citations as you'd probably have to fully update both World Cup articles given they are transcluded and I don't think that's a fair barrier to this becoming a GA. You've put a lot of work into this and it's basically done now.
Re-Reports of hostility: I was hoping we could add a news agency or "local press" or something like that had reported it but if the source only says "reports were made", then that's fine.

Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 07:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Rather than leaving this hanging, I've been bold and made the two minor changes required and I'm now happy to pass this as a GA. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 14:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
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