Talk:El Sistema

Stub

My accompanying stub is mainly material taken from the founder's bio (and removed there where not necessary in light of the stub). The following excerpts of the bio do not clearly apply to El Sistema, but may:

... , and became the Minister of Culture in 1983

Abreu has participated in exchange and co-operation programmes with Spain, Latin American countries and the United States. His orchestras have received UNESCO's International Prize of Music (1993-1995).

--Jerzy•t 03:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Name change

I disagree with the name change to FESNOJIV. The popular name, for obvious reasons, is "El Sistema." We should make the encyclopedia user-friendly. --Niels Gade (talk) 21:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

FESNOJIV is well-attested in press reports and is even one of the official web sites. http://www.google.com/search?q=FESNOJIV&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a http://www.fesnojiv.gob.ve/ However, is "el Orquesta" really attested? Spanish grammar would seem to suggest "La Orquesta" (with "La" capitalized because it's part of a proper name), and this source agrees: http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/diana.hollinger/attach/research-instrumentforsocialchange.doc Jww1066 (talk) 15:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Miraculous

How does someone speak in Bold? 201.241.164.143 (talk) 08:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Duplication

I have deleted the former section, El Sistema Community Music Education Programs World-Wide, as it duplicates verbatim the article Community music education programs. I've added that article to a See also section here. The question is, should the other article stand alone, or be merged into this one. See Talk:Community music education programs for some of the outstanding issues with that article Voceditenore (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Now that that article has been deleted, shouldn't the deleted section be restored? Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The deleted section (El Sistema Community Music Education Programs World-Wide) is in the history here. Three of the links in it might be useful for writing a section on the subject, but the section should not be restored in its current state. It has the same major problems that got the article deleted:

• The introduction consists of unencyclopedic and inappropriate personal commentary and does not adhere to a neutral pont of view.
• The vast majority of the programs listed are not explictly inspired by El Sistema at all or affiliated with it (and may even pre-date it) and their inclusion violates Wikipedia guidelines on original research and synthesis.
• It equates actual schools such as the Boston Arts Academy and Conservatory Lab Charter School with community programs and the Learning Through Music Curriculum with El Sistema. They are very different. As such, this is simply a link farm of loosely connected websites/organizations.
• The "Mission Statements" listed are copy/pasted from the respective websites in violation of copyright.
• It's not "world-wide" at all. It mentions one related program in Scotland (Sistema Scotland), but everything else is in the US and primarily in Boston and as I said above, apart from El Sistema New York, the programs listed have no explicit connection to El Sistema whatsoever.

Voceditenore (talk) 07:00, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Changes under Chavez?

I think some material on how the program has changed (or not) under Hugo Chavez would be interesting. Historian932 (talk) 00:24, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

As far as I've read in Tunstall's recent book (which I've listed as a "further reading" source until I can specifically quote some of it) does not suggest that anything has changed. She notes somewhere that El Sistema has survived and developed under political systems ranging from the right to the Chavez era. As recently as 2009 she notes that the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra appeared in London and in Washington, DC. Viva-Verdi (talk) 05:12, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

El Sistema in other countries section is a mess

What I wrote in 2010 above still applies. More and more non-notable community music education projects, most with no formal affiliation to El Sistema whatsoever, have been added since then, replete with copy-pasted blurbs and referenced solely to their own websites. I have drastically pruned the blurbs, but in my view the entire list should go, replaced by a prose summary mentioning only examples which have multiple third party coverage. Voceditenore (talk) 10:14, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree with your suggestion to remove the listing of individual programs. Under "../In Other Countries/United States/" I would expect to find 1) information regarding the subject matter at the national level, 2) Noteworthy Organizations at the national level, or recognized nationally in secondary sources. I can not contribute to this effort due to COI, but I support the changes you suggest. Bobsd (talk) 17:20, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Copyright problem removed

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External links modified

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• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.millersymphonyhall.org/education-community/el-sistema-lehigh-valley/elsistema-usa/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141020075317/http://www.miamimusicproject.org/index.php to http://miamimusicproject.org/index.php
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111105011408/http://www.scottisharts.org.uk/1/latestnews/1004716.aspx to http://www.scottisharts.org.uk/1/latestnews/1004716.aspx
• Added archive https://archive.is/20120710220412/http://fundacionprincipedeasturias.org/en/awards/2008/sistema-nacional-de-orquestas-juveniles-e-infantiles-de-venezuela-1/ to http://fundacionprincipedeasturias.org/en/awards/2008/sistema-nacional-de-orquestas-juveniles-e-infantiles-de-venezuela-1/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140424194910/http://www.tocaryluchar.com/en/index.html to http://www.tocaryluchar.com/en/index.html
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100103094434/http://fesnojiv.gob.ve/en.html to http://www.fesnojiv.gob.ve/en.html
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Authoritarianism

Where does the article mention "authoritarianism"? [1] Burrobert (talk) 13:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

The article clearly states that "So far the protests, now entering their second month, have left at least 35 dead, hundreds injured and more than a thousand arrested", and the government is further described as the one "which has plunged the country into one of the most serious crises in its history", as included in the reference's quote. --NoonIcarus (talk) 08:32, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

You must be hard of hearing. The question was "Where does the article mention "authoritarianism"?" Burrobert (talk) 13:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I have solved the issue with an alternative wording. I also would advice you to stop the sealioning with edit summaries such as Start by engaging in a calm discussion on the article's talk page., while at the same time making snarky comments like the one above, or any others that I have commented. Many of the times you have added inline tags there are issues that can be easily fixed per WP:DIY. --NoonIcarus (talk) 17:05, 23 September 2023 (UTC)