Talk:Electric Café (En Vogue album)
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editwhy again was it made into a redirect? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockercar32 (talk • contribs) 03:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Possible deletion again
edit@Cultureinject: @Rockercar32: @Elmidae: Here we go again with the release dates being pushed back. You're saying March 30, 2018 (not to mention the many other dates), and now you're saying April 6, 2018. If another release date is given, I'm nominating the article for speedy deletion and will request that the page be fully-protected until the album is eventually released. Horizonlove (talk) 18:45, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Horizonlove: It's not any of those editors' fault that the label or the band themselves keep delaying their album: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/electric-caf%C3%A9-bonus-trackedition/1349405976 That's the new official release date according to iTunes. Your request would also not be granted, because it does not meet any of the criteria for speedy deletion, so you would have to nominate it for deletion (again). It's not a test page, it's not a hoax, it hasn't been previously deleted, it wasn't made by a blocked user, it doesn't meet any technical deletion criteria, you're not the author so you can't request deletion, it isn't dependent on a deleted page, Wikimedia office actions don't apply, it's not a harassment page, it's not blatant advertising, it's not copyright infringement, and it's certainly not an AfD submission or draft. That knocks out all the General speedy deletion criteria. It has context, it has content, it's not in another language, it hasn't been moved from another project, and there is an indication of importance (third-party sources are reporting on it as the upcoming release by a well-known R&B act). So there goes all the options you'd have for speedy deletion. Ss112 19:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Ss112: Read carefully and do your homework. I never said it was anyone's fault that they keep pushing back their date. And because the page was deleted/redirected and not much has changed since that deletion, it very well could meet speedy deletion and page protection. Looking back over the page's history, when the page was redirected/deleted, different editors kept reverting the page back even when other editors (users: Explicit, PRehse, Elmidae) tried to uphold the redirect. As Elmidae stated, it still fails WP:Crystal, however that statement was made before another push-back date. In any case, the page still relying on blog links and itunes for everything and since the album has yet to be released, it should be deleted until it is finally released. Horizonlove (talk) 19:57, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Horizonlove: Please do your homework. Redirecting an article is not equal to deletion, and no speedy deletion criteria apply here, as I have just told you. I ran through all the possible things you could nominate it for, and absolutely none apply. If you nominate it for speedy deletion, I will revert because there is no applicable criteria (Elmidae appears to have reverted themselves upon realising it was available to pre-order; the other two users did so last year, I'm assuming before the pre-order went up). I also see you were previously reverted for adding erroneous speedy deletion templates when they didn't apply. Please learn what speedy deletion criteria apply before threatening other users with it. WP:CRYSTAL does not apply here because if it did, then we would basically have no articles for albums that have not been released yet. We have reliable sources talking about its release, and we do—Essence, WGN-TV and The Huffington Post are not blogs (HuffPost is often considered a blog, but it is now primarily considered more of a website than its blog origins). There is, as previously established, now a track list and pre-order page on iTunes, and a song from the album becoming quite successful at R&B radio, so I would say that's enough of an impetus for the band to finally release the album. One of the users even stated at the previous AfD that it did not warrant an article "without a tracklist or release date". We now have both of those things. Ss112 21:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Ss112: Once again, you are missing the point. What I'm saying is if the album doesn't get a release on the supposed date that someone entered (April 6), the page should be redirected back to En Vogue until it is released. As for " Redirecting an article is not equal to deletion", I don't give a damn because in the end, the page is still emptied and redirected, which is still a deletion. As for the pre-order on iTunes as a source, it doesn't really guarantee too much as many albums remained unreleased even though it was available for pre-order. Example: Jesse McCartney's "Have It All" album was available for pre-order through Walmart and iTunes but it was never released and it had track listings and cover arts as well as reliable sources. All I'm saying is the page should be redirected back to En Vogue until the album is actually released due to its past history of release dates. Horizonlove (talk) 22:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Horizonlove: No need to worry or stress anymore, it's finally out. Ss112 00:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ss112: Once again, you are missing the point. What I'm saying is if the album doesn't get a release on the supposed date that someone entered (April 6), the page should be redirected back to En Vogue until it is released. As for " Redirecting an article is not equal to deletion", I don't give a damn because in the end, the page is still emptied and redirected, which is still a deletion. As for the pre-order on iTunes as a source, it doesn't really guarantee too much as many albums remained unreleased even though it was available for pre-order. Example: Jesse McCartney's "Have It All" album was available for pre-order through Walmart and iTunes but it was never released and it had track listings and cover arts as well as reliable sources. All I'm saying is the page should be redirected back to En Vogue until the album is actually released due to its past history of release dates. Horizonlove (talk) 22:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Horizonlove: Please do your homework. Redirecting an article is not equal to deletion, and no speedy deletion criteria apply here, as I have just told you. I ran through all the possible things you could nominate it for, and absolutely none apply. If you nominate it for speedy deletion, I will revert because there is no applicable criteria (Elmidae appears to have reverted themselves upon realising it was available to pre-order; the other two users did so last year, I'm assuming before the pre-order went up). I also see you were previously reverted for adding erroneous speedy deletion templates when they didn't apply. Please learn what speedy deletion criteria apply before threatening other users with it. WP:CRYSTAL does not apply here because if it did, then we would basically have no articles for albums that have not been released yet. We have reliable sources talking about its release, and we do—Essence, WGN-TV and The Huffington Post are not blogs (HuffPost is often considered a blog, but it is now primarily considered more of a website than its blog origins). There is, as previously established, now a track list and pre-order page on iTunes, and a song from the album becoming quite successful at R&B radio, so I would say that's enough of an impetus for the band to finally release the album. One of the users even stated at the previous AfD that it did not warrant an article "without a tracklist or release date". We now have both of those things. Ss112 21:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Ss112: Read carefully and do your homework. I never said it was anyone's fault that they keep pushing back their date. And because the page was deleted/redirected and not much has changed since that deletion, it very well could meet speedy deletion and page protection. Looking back over the page's history, when the page was redirected/deleted, different editors kept reverting the page back even when other editors (users: Explicit, PRehse, Elmidae) tried to uphold the redirect. As Elmidae stated, it still fails WP:Crystal, however that statement was made before another push-back date. In any case, the page still relying on blog links and itunes for everything and since the album has yet to be released, it should be deleted until it is finally released. Horizonlove (talk) 19:57, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Album background
editIn 2003, singer and actress Rhona Bennett joined the two remaining members of En Vogue, Terry Ellis and Cindy Herron, following the departure of Dawn Robinson and Maxine Jones as well as temporary replacement Amanda Cole.[9] Along with Bennett, they recorded their sixth studio album Soul Flower, which was released through the independent label 33rd Street Records, Bayside Entertainment, and Herron and Ellis' Funky Funkigirl Records in February 2004.[9] In mid-2004, Jones and Robinson rejoined En Vogue, with Bennett withdrawing from the group.[10] While the original quartet performed several spot dates in North America and the release of new music through Los Angeles-based Movemakers Entertainment and Funky Girl was announced, Robinson soon chose to defect from En Vogue once again after failing to agree on business terms.[10]
In the following years, the band went through several lineup changes, with Robinson and Jones ultimately leaving and Bennett rejoining the group in 2012.
All of that has nothing to do with background of the album [Electric Cafe]. The album's background should go in the direction of talking about how 'the original members reunited in 2009 and continued to tour up to 2011. During that time, they confirmed to be working on new material and released a single "I'll Cry Later" which only features Maxine, Terry, and Cindy. After failure to negotiate on management, Dawn left the group; followed by Maxine.' Then you can pick it up with "In July 2014, the trio signed with Pyramid Records..." Horizonlove (talk) 18:55, 14 April 2018 (UTC)