Talk:Eleventh Avenue (Manhattan)

West End Avenue section

West End and Eleventh should be split, as the CPW and Eighth Ave pages are. The Sections are so vvery distinct in character.Elan26 (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)Elan26

Other streets with different names for different segments had enough good material for each segment to make an article. For this one there isn't even enough text to make a reasonable sized West End Avenue section in this article, much less a whole separate article for that part. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

CPW and Eighth are no longer split because they are not different. The street name is the only thing separating them. Same thing with the Waverly Place/Washington Square North pair of articles; the 59th Street/CPS pair; the 5th Avenue/Museum Mile pair, the 8th Street/St. Mark's pair, and the 110th/CPN pair. Epicgenius (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

West End Avenue merger

West End should be merged into 11th Avenue. (Basically, the opposite of the above section.)

They have the same history and similar character. Besides, West End is just a stub that shows the architectural character of the upper part. Epicgenius (talk) 20:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with West End Avenue

They are just the same street with two different names. Also see Template talk:Streets of Manhattan. Epicgenius (talk) 03:32, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

If done, the resulting article should show both names, i.e. "Eleventh Avenue / West End Avenue". However, please don't merge with a consensus to do so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I won't move until there is consensus. Epicgenius (talk) 16:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I too feel that the two entries should be merged. They are one road, called different things depending on the exact location. A well structured article could cover both and be linked to from either search term... just not sure which search term should be the actual page.BoingsterBoingster (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

References / Notes

Why? "Notes" removed by User:Bhny; User:Beyond My Ken re-adds it, then the game is repeated by Bhny and Beyond My Ken. While Beyond My Ken didn't give any edit summaries, Bhny once wrote: "Why?". As there are no other subheadings, I, too, don't see any need to introduce an unnecessary subdivision. WP:FNNR allows for various terms to be used for this section, but there's no need to use two terms for one homogeneous section. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Because "References" is a 'category of things, and "Notes" is a specific kind of reference. Note that MOS is a guideline, not a policy, and cannot "allow" or disallow anything, since it is not mandatory.BMK (talk) 15:05, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

So why not simplify matters and replace "References" with "Notes"? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Because "References" is a category of things, and acts as a catchall for any additional types of references that may be added to the article.

Believe me, I once felt exactly as you do, and I was undoing the edits of another editor, and making the same arguments that you're making, until I realized that he was right, and I was wrong. All articles should have a standard "References" -- just like the standard "See also"" and ""External links" sections -- and we should then inform our readers what kind of references are in this article. It's clean, it's logical, and -- to some people very important -- it's within policy and not disallowed by MOS. BMK (talk) 07:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

And in what sense are the references in this article not just "references" but "notes"? In my understanding, a note explains something that would be distracting to include in the main narration, e.g. why a person's birthday is uncertain, or differences in the pronunciation of a foreign term. References provide citations for claims made in the article, and that's what we find in this article. ("Footnotes" is a term covering both.) So, back to square one: omit "Notes" because they aren't. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

@Michael Bednarek: Just a few notes.

1. Many articles that BMK significantly edited have this style of referencing.
2. If BMK's "category" argument is good, then why don't we use ==Notes== instead?
3. Does it really matter whether we use "References" or "Notes"? It's not important. The article needs more references and less of these stupid edit wars. Epicgenius (talk) 19:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

ad 1.: So? BMK's house style?

ad 2.: That's what I suggested, too.

ad 3.: It doesn't, but there should only be one term if there's only one kind. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:22, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

May be a little late, but 1: Yes; 2: OK, but don't expect it anytime soon; 3: I agree. Epicgenius (talk) 02:28, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

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Death Avenue

The Death Avenue is not the 11th, but the 10th, cf. [1]. The redirection has to be changed. - Cymbella (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't dispute that story at livinthehighline.com by Annik La Farge, but it is somewhat contradicted by the two articles involved. This article, Eleventh Avenue, discusses "Death Avenue" and gives a NYT citation from May 1911 (which I can't read). The article about Tenth Avenue mentions of course the West Side Line but doesn't mention "death", although the restaurant Death Ave is indeed located on Tenth. I think "Death Avenue" may have been used for both avenues in various sources, and the article on Tenth Ave needs to include a mention of "Death Avenue" to justify the redirect. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:43, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Actually, doing some checking, the "Death Avenue" nickname was given to both 10th and 11th. I'll make the necessary adjustments.Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

OK, I've converted the Death Avenue redirect into a short article, using material from High Line (properly credited on the talk page, as required), and added much of the same material to the Tenth Avenue (Manhattan) article. Now, I think I just need to make it clear in this article that both avenues were referred to by that name, and I think we're done. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:10, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:32, 8 July 2018 (UTC)