Talk:Elizabeth Salguero/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 15:56, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Review

• I'll take this on for review, comments forthcoming Mujinga (talk) 15:56, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
• Thanks for an interesting read Krisgabwoosh, I'll put the article on hold now and await your responses. Please ask if something isn't clear and if you need more than seven days, that's not a problem as long as we communicate. We previously worked on Eva Copa so I think we'll be fine, but please don't refactor my comments without checking in first. Cheers, Mujinga (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• Article is stable, earwig gives no copyvio (although sources are mainly spanish), pics are appropriately licensed and relevant.
• References are well laid out and reliable, MOS compliant, no original research, article is broad, focused, neutral. Comments on prose below.
  • Hi again! Thank you for the review, I'll get right to work. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 04:54, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the replies, I've made comments where necessary, see what you think Mujinga (talk) 17:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • I've replied to your replies! Mujinga (talk) 08:30, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
        • I've replied to your replies to my replies. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:52, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
          • Yay we got there, congrats on the GA. If you were going forward to FAC, I would suggest expanding the lead and translating the foreign citation titles into English [in square brackets] after the original title, but for now all GA requirements are met. Cheers, Mujinga (talk) 11:15, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
            • Awesome! Thank you so much for once again taking the time to review one of my articles. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:40, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Lead

• Feels a bit short but prose is 14k so it's ok as one paragraph by MOS:LEADLENGTH. Could you maybe add a sentence each about her journalism and what she accomplished as minister? minister of cultures could be Minister of Cultures
  • 1: To my knowledge, an official post should only be capitalized when it precedes a name or is used in place of a name; so minister of cultures should be correct.
    • Yes I'd thought I'd flag it up because it looks funny, but I agree Mujinga (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
  • 2: With shorter articles like these, I tend to keep the lead to just a curriculum vitae of offices held and years in which they served. There's only three paragraph worth of information I could find on her tenure as minister so it's already pretty summarized in the main body text as is.
    • Per MOS:LEAD the lead shoudl summarize the article, I still think a sentence on how she focused upon indigenous and women's rights would be helpful. Maybe the journalism isn't so central, although I do note on the Spanih wiki article there is a list of works. So as a fruther point, do you think it's worth adding a selected works section? Mujinga (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Probably worth adding a section, I'll see if I can find an accurate list of works. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:54, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • Still open Mujinga (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
          • Given the inaccessibility of most publications by Salguero, discerning what constitutes something that is worth noting seems impractical. Based on her list of publications on Spanish Wikipedia, these all range from general publications from the Ministry of Culture during her tenure to works she only contributed to but didn't write. Seems the editor just name-searched Salguero on Google Books and copied down anything that her name was attached to. While a list of publications is probably worth adding, someone with better access to her works would have to do it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:51, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

            ok thanks for the answer! Mujinga (talk) 11:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

• ok

Early life and career

• "Additionally, she holds a degree in social communication" - i read the source (in translation, so please forgive me if i get stuff wrong) as saying she has a BA in social communication and a MA in regional planning.
  • Added "bachelor's" to "degree in social communication".
    • I think that is actually her first degree Mujinga (talk) 16:52, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Probably, but the La Razon article doesn't state which university she got it from. Romero Ballivián only states that her master's was from Karlsruhe. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:04, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • Yes but the prob at the moment is it now reads like she has two bachelor degrees. Would it be possible to find another source to clarify? Mujinga (talk) 08:19, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
          • I took another look at Romero Ballivián's short biography of her. Her degree in social communication is from the University of Córdoba: "estudió la licenciatura en comunicación en la Universidad Nacional de Córdoba". I changed it accordingly. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
• Also, the source for the claim above has the quote 'Vamos a trabajar en eliminar aquellas costumbres o conceptos que fomenten cualquier tipo de discriminación racial o de género […],' adelantó [Salguero] tras tomar posesión de su despacho." which is useful elsewhere presumably but not relevant here
  • The citation —with the relevant quote— is used multiple times in the article. Is it preferable to use multiple citations even if they both link to the same webpage? Issue addressed further down.
• Again, same issue with setence beginning " In 1994, Salguero founded "
• " Articulation of Women for Equity and Equality" - Articulation sounds strange to me, if that isn't the official name maybe you can suggest another word which sounds better in english?
  • The name is a direct translation of the original name: Articulación de Mujeres por la Equidad y la Igualdad. As a Spanish-speaker, I have to say that the name sounds equally as odd in its native language as it does translated. However, longwinded names for various unions and social organizations are not uncommon in Bolivia.
    • Haha cool thanks for clarification Mujinga (talk) 16:52, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• "In journalism, " - suggest cut
  • Cut.
• Sine - Since?
  • Since.

Chamber of Deputies

• "Movement for Socialism (MAS-IPSP). In 2005, she stepped into politics as a MAS candidate for deputy" suggest just giving MAS as first abbreviation to avoid confusion
  • Fair enough.
• "plurinominal member" seems correct but is there any link for plurinominal, since it's not a common word in english - 2014_Bolivian_general_election#Electoral_system says "multi-member (plurinominal)"
  • Multi-member works but isn't really that correct. Plurinominal simply refers to representatives elected from a party list. I could link to that or to party-list proportional representation.
    • Hmmm thanks for checking, neither of those links mentions plurinominal so I guess there isn't much more to be done Mujinga (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • I should note the "uninominal" —which refers to deputies elected in districts— redirects to first-past-the-post voting so party-list proportional representation could work. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:07, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • another thought would be to link to wikitionary with Template:Wiktionary Mujinga (talk) 08:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
          • That's perfect, I did that. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
• "However, political and ideological differences soon led her to distance herself from the party" - but in the infobox it says Fearless Movement (1999–2005), which makes it seem she was in the party a long time?
  • I guess it depends on how you look at it. In most Western countries where many politicians are usually lifelong party affiliates, being a member of a party for six years before switching to another could be considered relatively "soon". It's a bit more difficult in Bolivian terms, as most parties don't even last more than one full electoral cycle. Considering the Fearless Movement, of the 15 years it existed between 1999 and 2014, she was a member of it for 40% of that time. I could replace "soon" with "eventually".
    • yes "eventually" works better for me! Mujinga (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Done. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:07, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• La Paz can be unlinked two times
  • Done.

2009 and 2010 elections

• "Although the pair emerged victoriously," which pair? and are you saying they won?
  • Arce and Salguero; she was his alternate, so they won together. In Bolivia, we typically refer to two individuals running together as a binomial, though I don't know if there's a suitable English word for that. I used "pair".
  • The point that's trying to be made is that: although she won the election, she was nominated to be a candidate in a different election, and so she resigned from the original post before assuming office.
    • OK for me it would be clearer if you said the pair "won the election" or something like that Mujinga (talk) 17:00, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Added that. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• Would be good to have the citation directly after the quotation so it doesn't get separated over time
  • I understand the reasoning. As this article is edited highly infrequently, I'd say its preferable to keep the one citation rather than have two of the same citations next to one another.
    • OK I'll agree to disagree on that! Mujinga (talk) 17:00, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Rad. Of course, I keep this article as a watched page, so I could always fix it if something like that occurs. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Minister of Cultures

• I see, here's the ref being used for the quote "eliminate those customs or concepts that promote any type of racial or gender discrimination" - I'd suggest making this a separate reference and putting the citation directly on the quote
  • Done.
• suggest combining first two paragraphs
  • Done.
• "Cerro Rico, which was in danger of collapsing" what's collapsing? the mine? the mountain?
  • Both. The mountain was in danger of collapsing, in which case it would crush the mine. Perhaps "collapsing in on itself"?
    • I'll answer here for the relevant points below as well. For a reader like me, I have no idea what Cerro Rico and Tiwanaku are, so on first mention they need to be defined. I think running them together isn't optimal since it makes me assume they are both the same thing, ie both "archaeological and cultural sites". If you define them, then "complex" later on will be clearer. I don't need much, just a sentence or a clause. Yes people can click through, but it's also really interesting that Cerro Rico was mined for silver ore by the Spanish colonialists for example. Mujinga (talk) 17:08, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • I expanded to "such as the ancient indigenous citadel of Tiwanaku and the silver-rich Cerro Rico mountain". As a Spanish-to-English translator, I still take issue with "Rich Mountain Mountain" but that's probably a personal gripe as most readers likely won't think twice about it. I also added the specification that Cerro Rico was in danger of collapsing in on itself rather than just collapsing. Hopefully these are sufficient but feel free to tell me if it still needs more. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:22, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • working for me now! suggest changing "Salguero assured that" to "Salguero ensured that", and also " In tourism," to "Regarding tourism" or similar Mujinga (talk) 08:30, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
          • Done and done. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:35, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
• archeological typo
  • Standardized to archeological. I hate when words have two correct spellings which don't get noticed by spellcheck.
• suggest on first mention defining what Cerro Rico and Tiwanaku are. I had no idea
  • I found some difficulty with this. A quick explanation would've been: "the Tiwanaku archaeological site and Cerro Rico mountain". However, "archaeological and cultural sites in Tiwanaku archaeological site" sounds weird. As does "Cerro Rico mountain", which translates to "Rich Mountain mountain". I opted to replace "in" with "such as" to create "archaeological and cultural sites such as Tiwanaku and Cerro Rico" rather than "archaeological and cultural sites in Tiwanaku and Cerro Rico". Hopefully that sufficiently explains in bare-bones terms what they are (archaeological and cultural sites). An interested reader can always hover over the hyperlink on both Tiwanaku and Cerro Rico and skim the description without even needing to leave the article.
• "promotion of the complex" you haven't said what sort of complex it is
  • Tiwanaku is the complex. "The Center for Archaeological […] Research of Tiwanaku was established, responsible for the management […] of the complex". Perhaps the list of things the Archaeological Center does could be shortened, though it's already significantly trimmed from the original article. If "complex" doesn't instinctually connect with Tiwanaku, I've also heard "citadel" be used.
• " recognized eight folk dances and cultural and intangible heritage" - reads awkwardly, did you mean to say "as cultural and intangible heritage" ?
  • Correct, my mistake. Fixed.
• " replacing Salguero with former cultures minister Pablo Groux" - not a fan of one sentence paragrpahs so suggest joining this to the previous one, or alternatively expanding it a bit with more info about Groux being the first incumbent then taking the office a second time, since right now "former cultures minister" reads strange to me
  • Changed to "After just under a year in office, Morales renewed his cabinet on 23 January 2012; Salguero was replaced by former minister Pablo Groux, who had previously headed the Ministry of Cultures during Morales' first term." The semicolon still technically makes it one sentence —though it could easily be split into two— but hopefully it's sufficient. Unfortunately, there isn't much information on the circumstances of her removal, likely because there weren't many; Morales simply liked renewing his cabinet yearly.
    • Much improved, nice one! Mujinga (talk) 17:08, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Diplomatic career

• Ambassador is linked to Bolivia–Germany relations in the infobox, I think I'd rather it wasn't linked in both places
  • Fair enough. I liked linking to that article as it seemed close enough in place of a dedicated article listing Bolivian ambassadors.
• " Ekeko Tunu" - what is that?
  • It's a statuette, as mentioned after. However, I forgot to add a hyperlink to Ekeko, where a reader can find more information if they wish.
    • The link helps. So if Ekeko is a god, shouldn't "Salguero stated that the Ekeko's return" be "Salguero stated that the statuette's return" ? Mujinga (talk) 17:03, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Common Bolivian vernacular is to refer to each statuette as an Ekeko. Rather than serving as a representation of Ekeko, each statuette is Ekeko, if that makes sense. In this sense, the English article is a bit erroneous, as it leads the reviewer to believe that the statuettes are only representations of the deity. Nonetheless, "statuette" still works in a non-religious sense. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:37, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • ok, thanks for explanation Mujinga (talk) 08:27, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
• "she retired from "party politics", party" - party politics could be wikilinked, doesn't need quotes. Second party is presumably a typo
  • Removed quotes. The second "party" should have been "partly".

References

• Several references have "Written at La Paz" as author, why is that?
  • Indicates when articles were published and written in different locations. La Jornada is published in Mexico City but the article states that it was written in La Paz. The citation template provides "location of publication" and "place of publication" separately for this reason. "Written at La Paz" only typically appears when no author is named.
    • Ah I see. As it is, it doesn't really fit the wiki housestyle since it makes "Written at La Paz" seem like the author. I'd suggest using either Example text (with spaces removed to be |author=), or Example text. Mujinga (talk) 17:25, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
    • Hmm you'll have to look at the code to see what I meant! Mujinga (talk) 17:25, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
      • I added that, but it caused no visual change. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:47, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
        • I solved it (I think) for ref 11 by using |author=Staff writer instead. See what you think Mujinga (talk) 08:27, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
          • Perfect; went ahead and did the same for the other citations. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 05:39, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

            looks good! Mujinga (talk) 11:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• "Salguero renunciará a su diputación suplente". La Razón. - needs (In Spanish)
  • Done.
• Refs seem reliable

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.