Talk:Ely and Littleport riots of 1816/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Nikkimaria (talk) 01:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello! I will be reviewing this article for potential GA status. My review should be posted shortly. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 01:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't feel this article is quite up to GA standard. I encourage you to continue your excellent work on it and renominate once the below issues have been addressed. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

• "the mob began intimidating wealthy residents" - "wealthier" residents? The mob is made up of residents, correct? Also, residents of the inn or of the town as a whole? agreed  Done
• Amend infobox date to reflect spread of riot to Ely? agreed  Done
• Shorter quotes (less than three lines long) would in most instances be better incorporated into the prose instead of separated agreed  Done
• "marched through Denver then onto Downham Market both in Norfolk, to meet with the magistrates" - grammar agreed  Done
• "Littleport, is a large village" (and similar) - comma not needed agreed  Done
• "One man went to get a horn from from Burgess" - grammar agreed  Done
• "the Globe Inn" or "The Globe Inn"? agreed  Done
• "as they would attend to him soon enough" - is this a direct quote? If so, quote it; if not, rephrase agreed  Done was not a quote but rephrased to be a direct quote
• "his housekeeper, Mrs Hutt, was intimated by a rioter wielding a butchers cleaver" - do you mean "intimidated"? Also, should be "butcher's" agreed  Done
• "Arriving next at "a nice old gentleman", Mr Little, who gave the mob £2 (£118); they continued on" - grammar, ... agreed  Done
• ... and clarify that the number in parentheses represents modern currency

stet I had every modern monetary value cited but peer-review asked me to remove all but one so further advice needed here

I don't think you need to cite them individually, but just remove the "at present worth, as of 2010" in the first instance and instead say in a note "all numbers in parentheses are modern values as of 2010"

Sorry. I am being thick. I still do not understand.

• remove the "at present worth, as of 2010" - understood I think
• do you mean replace my exiting note "All monetary figures in this article are inflated to 2024 values using RPI as describe in Choosing the Best Indicator to Measure Relative Worth" with your "all numbers in parentheses are modern values as of 2010" or do you mean every occurence of parenthetic monetary values need a note, e.g. <ref name="RPI">?

• Oh, I see, you've got that under references...in that case, just include that as a footnote rather than a note

• "Next came the old lady, Mrs Rebecca Waddelow, where they broke into her house" - grammar. Also, is Waddelow a noble? If not, suggest using "woman"  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Mrs Rebecca Cutlack, wife of John, a Littleport farmer, was visiting at the time, they robbed her and then removed property worth between £100 and £200,[22] (£5,877–£11,754)." - grammar  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "The rioters then stopped a post chaise[28] returning with Mr Hugh Robert Evans senior, and Mr Martin from a Turnpike Trust meeting in Downham and robbed him of 14 shillings,[29] (£41), before allowing him to proceed" - who did they rob, Evans or Martin? Also, comma after "shillings" should be removed agreed  Done
• Avoid one-sentence paragraphs, as they tend to disrupt text flow
• What are "fowling guns"? agreed  Done
• "On being told that they wanted 'the price of a stone of flour per day' and that 'our children are starving, give us a living wage' the Reverend agreed" - grammar. Use full quotation marks. agreed  Done
• "Sidmouth was not convinced" - about what? Please clarify agreed  Done
• "Law called in at Royston troop of volunteer yeomanry cavalry asking them to attend" - rephrase for clarity agreed  Done
• "Before arrival at the Ely Road[nb 6] between Upton Lane and the lower part of The Crescent, a small detachment of troops were ordered across the Hemp Field to enter the village from the east" - given that most readers will not be familiar with this area, you can be less specific and more descriptive. A map would be very helpful if you could find one  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Thomas Sindal or Sindall? agreed  Done Both are correct from different sources - using spelling from majority sources
• "Thomas Sindall was killed; the only person known to be at both Downham Market and Littleport" - grammar agreed  Done
• "The result of this shooting subdued the rest of the rioters" -> "This shooting subdued the rest of the rioters" or "The result of this shooting was to subdue the rest of the rioters" agreed  Done
• "A detachment of 69th regiment" - this should be explained here rather than later in the paragraph agreed  Done
• "The rounding up of the rest of the rioters" - phrasing agreed  Done
• "£5 each,[46] (£294)" (and similar) - comma not needed agreed  Done
• What are "six pounders"? agreed  Done they are cannon - fixed plus ref
• "special commission" or "Special Commission"? agreed  Done
• "since 1800 it was Edward Christian" - grammar since 1800
• "the crown...appointed his own Judges" - grammar Stet please advise as the crown was a he

• Generally "crown" is taken as a genderless noun, regardless of who it represents at the time.  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Justice Burrough or Burroughs? agreed  Done
• "9am to around 6 pm" - format times consistently agreed  Done
• Why is there a separate section for the first day but not all the other days? I understand your concern about excessive detail, but this layout seems odd
• "Of the nineteen persons commuted, seven were sentenced to penal transportation" - table lists 9 sentenced to transportation  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "John Dennis (32), a publican" - table lists his occupation as "victualler"  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "On Saturday 22 June 1816 six men were acquitted; ten were discharged; thirty-six were bailed; twenty-three men and one woman were condemned" - total of 76 people? There were 82 in court the first day

• I am aware of this discrepancy. I need to re-consult the sources --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• "which departed for New South Wales...and arrived in New South Wales" - repetitious  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Isaac Harley (33), junior" and "Thomas South (22) the younger" - table omits the junior/younger designation (but includes elder for Beamiss)  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "On Friday 28 June 1816 at 9 am, the condemned men, William Beamiss, George Crow, John Dennis, Isaac Harley and Thomas South, were driven from the gaol at Ely Market place in a black draped cart[84] and two horses costing five-pound five-shillings[85] (£309) accompanied by the Bishop's gaol Chaplain, John Griffin,[86] in a hired chaise and pair costing 13 shillings (£38).[87] In submitting his expenses on the 29 June" - is "Ely Market place" the correct name? "black draped" -> "black-draped". Omit "the" from the date. Why is such a big emphasis being placed on the costs of transportation?  Done --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Goal Street" -> "Gaol Street"? agreed  Done

*"vicars" -> "vicar's" agreed  Done

• "twelve condemned prisoners who had had their sentences commuted to twelve months imprisonment" - you said ten prisoners earlier, which is correct? Stet both are correct. The ten you are referring to were acquitted. Full breakdown follows:

24 condemned --> "On Saturday 22 June 1816 six men were acquitted; ten were discharged; thirty-six were bailed; twenty-three men and one woman were condemned of whom eighteen men and the woman, Sarah Hobbs, had their sentences commuted."

5 of the 24 condemned were executed

19 remaining --> "Of the nineteen persons commuted, seven were sentenced to penal transportation"

12 remaining now --> "A few days after the execution, the twelve condemned prisoners who had had their sentences commuted to twelve months imprisonment were transported to the prison hulk Justitia ..."

QED?

• Ely jail or gaol? agreed  Done
• "prisoners sentences" -> "prisoners' sentences" agreed  Done
• "Leaving England on 9 October 1816, the ship arrived in New South Wales 152 days later on 10 March 1817" - repeat from earlier section agreed  Done

Accuracy and verifiability

• "Johnson 1893 p. 75[58]" (and similar) - the footnote replicates the in-line citation - one or the other should be removed  Done --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Ref 4: formatting? agreed  Done
• Bibliography should be in alphabetical order agreed  Done
• Ref 37: formatting? agreed  Done
• Use a consistent formatting for references  Done --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Ref 27: author should be capitalized agreed  Done
• Galloway is not in Notes; nor is Gentleman's magazine. If these aren't used as citations, they should be a Further reading section agreed  Done
• Ref 17: publisher? agreed  Done replaced non WP:RS Goggin with OED
• What makes GenUK a reliable source? agreed  Done replaced with Peacock and Johnson
• How does ref 34 support the cited information? agreed  Done removed ref as not supporting anything
• Ref 92: publisher? agreed on reflection this is not RS. Seeking an RS source. Note sure what to do here. Perhaps strike the sentence? Shame really --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Broad

• Some excessive detail on things like prices and some repetition (both discussed above)

Neutrality

• "this was a sham" is not directly supported by the article, although it is implied agreed  Done cut
• "a hollow truce", "sacked" - need a more neutral/encyclopedic phrasing agreed  Done
• In general, the tone could be more encyclopedic. This tends to be an issue with historical articles - they often emulate the tone of their sources, which isn't always appropriate in a NPOV context

Stability

No issues noted

Images

• Captions should be grammatically correct and quotes in captions should be cited agreed  Done

Thank you for the review. I very much appreciate the time you have taken to look over this article. I am working through your points and would expect to complete them all within the next two days. I am obviously disappointed to be awarded a fail without being given time to address your concerns. Would you be very clear please and let me know what other steps I need to take to make this article elligible to be submitted as a GAN? --Senra (Talk) 20:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Gosh, looking at it now I can't actually believe this was removed as a GA last month (you've either done a great job getting it back up to standard, or the reviewer was a bit harsh). If you nominate it again, Senra, I'll be happy to put it back. Rob (talk) 10:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)