Talk:Emirate of Jabal Shammar

The accurate title name

I think the most accurate title name for this article academically is "The Emirate of Al-Rasheed" rather than "The Emirate of Jabal Shammar" for the following reasons:

1- "Jabal Shammar" means "the mountain of shammar" which is a modern tribe and we have more authentic names for the mountain goes back 2000 years earlier like "Aja mountain" or "jabal Tayy" which is an ancient tribe.

2- "The Emirate of Jabal Shammar" is a classical name used by explorers in their literature for Al-Rasheed rule in Ha'il. However, there are also earlier elite-family who ruled in Ha'il "al-Ali" before Al-Rasheed. So the problem is how can we distinguish between them if we call it "The Emirate of Jabal Shammar".

I agree that "Jabal Shammar" is also well known name for the mountain today, but "The Emirate of Jabal Shammar" is confusing if we take in consideration that the historical names & that there was earlier rulers before Al-Rasheed, whom ruled for centuries earlier.

"The Emirate of Al-Rasheed" is the best name for this article. It's alright to mention "The Emirate of Jabal Shammar" in the article as a other known classical name used by some historians in that period. --Nadbaqa (talk) 00:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

: No The Emirate of Jabal Shammar is more accurate as there  is Emirate of Najd which is also  had a history before the Sudi Houseالرشيد (talk) 10:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 26 March 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS. People seem to agree the current title is incorrect; but so is the proposed title? Hadal (talk) 06:14, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

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Emirate of Jabal Shammar → Emirate of Al-Rasheed – See Talk:Emirate of Jabal Shammar#The accurate title name above ☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 01:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

☾Loriendrew☽ The case for this will need to be good. In 51 uses in shown by a scholar search, only one supported the proposed title. GregKaye 10:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

I do not agree with the move, but the above user blanked this article and copy/pasted it to the new title. I reverted the blanking, made the other into a redirect here, and started this discussion on their behalf. Given the thought out arguement posted, the least that we could do was have a discussion.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 11:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

• Neither the proposed title nor the variant "Emirate of Al-Rashid" are more common than the current title, but another variant, "Rashidi Emirate", possibly is. Srnec (talk) 02:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

• Just to mix things up, another name, "Emirate of Ha'il"[1][2] is also common, more common than the proposed title, anyway. Wikipedia already uses this name for Conquest of Ha'il and the List of sovereign states series. —  AjaxSmack  01:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

• User talk:Loriendrew Thank you for starting a discussion and sorry for taking wrong actions (blanking this article, copy/pasted it to the new title) before starting a discussion and reading the rules (I'm new to Wikipedia).

• After reading the above discussion, I think I was wrong and made a spelling mistake "Rasheed/Rashid", but still think "Emirate of Jabal Shammar" is not the right title for the article to describe that emirate (yes, it's one of the common names for the emirate). Also, "Emirate of Ha'il/Hail" is/are other name/s used by many but not the right one for the article because there were earlier clan ruled Ha'il before the Rashidis (mentioned in Shammar tribe page): "The first clan, the Al Ali, were replaced by the Al Rashid." . The title must unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects.

• I agree with Srnec "Rashidi Emirate" is possibly the right title name for the article. --Ned11 (talk) 19:54, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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The date of Muhammad bin Talāl's rule

On the page it says Muhammad bin Talāl's rule was in 1921, but on his own page it states he ruled from early 1920 to 1921. If what is on Muhammad bin Talāl's page is correct this would interfere with what is Abdullah bin Mutaib Al Rashid's rule. What should be done about this discrepancy? Historynerd2 (talk) 21:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Flag

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This flag is more reliable than the previous one. The previous flag is of unclear origin, and we are not sure if those in the photo are from the Rashid family. The current flag is recognized by orientalists who visited Hail. عبدالعزيز علي (talk) 20:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Here The Sources: [3][4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by عبدالعزيز علي (talk • contribs) 11:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)