Talk:Emmylou Harris albums discography

Collaborations (copied from Emmylou Harris talk page for context)

As I read it, Collaborations is a subsection of the Discography section. If this is so, then I take it the collaborations listed should be limited to those albums (e.g., Trio, Western Wall, Roadrunning) on which Emmylou appears throughout and receives credit not just in the liner notes but on the front or back cover. A mere appearance, whether it's on one song or several, on someone else's album shouldn't be enough to warrant inclusion here. Otherwise, this section will become enormous again. Someone earlier suggested a separate discography entry, but until then. . . . Comments? Rivertorch 07:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Would a separate discography list be a bad thing? The move might encourage further development of both the biographical article and her massive discography (which could use the Dylan listing as a model). — WiseKwai 10:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Would you like to start it? :) I'll contribute what I can to it if someone else will do the initial setup. I do want to clean up the Collaborations section soon. Rivertorch 18:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, I just noticed this after adding some collaborations/duets. My view is: her collaborations are a part of her career and deserve encyclopedic coverage. Where they live strikes me as a formatting issue. Of course she's been so darn prolific as to make a six degrees of Emmylou game feasible and I can see the need to eventually break them out another article. The idea of removing them entirely makes me sad. I'll help, but I'm still pretty much a newbie and buried in the Songbirds article. Rubioblanca 04:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Rioblanca. I share your view that the songs deserve to be listed comprehensively. The question at this point, I think, is simply where to put them. The preceding two sections list entire albums, not songs. If you look back through the history of the article, you'll see that there was a fairly all-inclusive list once upon a time. Some felt it got out of hand and lengthened the article too much, but instead of its migrating to its own article it somehow got deleted. I can start a separate Discography article but probably can't get around to it for a few days. In the meantime, I'm going to pare the Collaborations section down to the bare bones—i.e., the albums, not individual songs. Don't worry about your entries disappearing; we can always retrieve them for the new separate page. Rivertorch 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

In the same vein, I'm cleaning up the Compilations section. What I remove there should reappear on the new Discography page by and by. Rivertorch 05:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't it make for a smoother transition (read less angst for me) if the Discography article was in place before the data disappeared from the main article? Is there a burning reason to do this now? Rubioblanca 05:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

How about this for a collaboration format? Rubioblanca 03:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Title	Collaborator(s)	Contribution	Songwriter	Length	Producer	Source	Date	Notes
"Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain"	Roy Acuff	vocals	Fred Rose	2:05		That's Country" by Roy Acuff and Grammy's Greatest Country, Vol. 2 by various artists	1975
"Oh My Sweet Carolina"	Ryan Adams	vocals	Ryan Adams	4:55	Ethan Jones	Heartbreaker by Ryan Adams	2000
"The Waltz You Saved for Me"	John Anderson	vocals	Flindt, Kahn, King	2:45		Wild & Blue by John Anderson	1982
"The Wayward Wind"	Lynn Anderson	harmony vocals	Lebowsky, Newman	3:26		Cowboy's Sweetheart by Lynn Anderson	1992
"The Last Time"	Tom Astor	vocals				Meilenstein by Tom Astor	1998
"Dreaming My Dreams"	Mike Auldridge	vocals	Reynolds	3:01		Mike Auldridge by Mike Auldridge	1976
"Appalachian Rain"	Matraca Berg	vocals	Matraca Berg, Samoset	3:43		Lying to the Moon by Matraca Berg	1990
"Only a Woman's Heart"	Mary Black	vocals	Eleanor McEvoy	3:47		Looking Back by Mary Black	1995
"Grey Funnel Line"	Mary Black, Dolores Keane	vocals		6:53	Donal Lunny	Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 2 by various artists	1999
"Sonny"	Mary Black, Dolores Keane	vocals		4:14	Donal Lunny	Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 1 by various artists	1998
"Nobody's"	David Bromberg	vocals	White	4:58	Brian Ahern, Bernie Leadon	Midnight on the Water by David Bromberg	1975
"Send Me an Angel"	Cindy Bullens	vocals	Cindy Bullens	4:35	Cindy Bullens	Neverland by Cindy Bullens	2001

Looks great! It will fit perfecty on the new Discography page, which I might actually get around to creating this week if no one beats me to it (hint hint, please beat me to it!), and I think a similar format would work well for the rest of the new page, as well. Rivertorch 04:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

It occurs to me that the Contribution column may prove problematic. In almost every case, her contribution is a vocal (should be a handful out of hundreds that are vocal + acoustic guitar) , and there may be endless debate over what constitutes duet vocals vs. harmony vocals. We could probably live without this column, but it doesn't bother me. I like the Producer column; that's cool. Rivertorch 04:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

What about separate lists for harmony vs lead vs unverified contribution? My thought is that there are a number of Emmylou appearances where the only way you know she's there is because the liner notes say so. I'd like a way to distinguish between substantial and other appearances. Ditching the contribution column is probably a good idea. Thoughts? Rubioblanca 14:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Created the Emmylou Harris discography article (someone was begging and I had a moment of weakness). Marked with template:underconstruction. I haven't deleted anything from this article yet. Modeled on the Bob Dylan discography. Help! Rubioblanca 15:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Good start! I went ahead and split the discography content out and added a main article link and also changed the template links to point to the new list. The chart coding is commented out for the time being until somebody (not me) wants to fill in the charts. I'd suggest that further talk about the discography development take place at Talk:Emmylou Harris discography. — WiseKwai 16:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

References

Collaboration vs Other Appearance

What should the threshold be for listing as a collaboration? These two Guy Clark albums are full of Emmylou:

• "Rita Ballou", "LA Freeway", "She Ain't Goin' Nowhere", "That Old Time Feeling", "Like a Coat from the Cold" from Guy Clark's album Old No. 1
• "Texas Cookin", "Anyhow, I Love You", Virginia's Real", "It's About Time", "Broken Hearted People", "Black Haired Boy" and "Me I'm Feeling the Same" from Guy Clark's album Texas Cookin'

If they are placed in the Other Appearances table they will use 12 rows vs 2 rows in the Collaborations table/list. Rubioblanca 17:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Keep it simple. I think that threshold for collaborations and appearances has been well established by the structure of this listing. As it stands, a collaboration is a work where Ms. Harris shares equal billing as a primary artist - i.e. her name appears on the album cover spine. These collaborations consist of Trio, Western Wall and the Roadrunning albums.

As far as threshold on "other appearances", that's open to broad interpretation, I believe. Teatro with Willie Nelson is a prime example. She's on 12 of 14 tracks, but it's still billed as a Willie Nelson album, not Willie Nelson and Emmylou Harris. The Guy Clark albums are also great examples of this. If she's appeared on two or more tracks on an album, perhaps just list the album in the title column and list the two or three song titles in the source section, up to a certain point. If she's performed on a majority of the tracks, listing all the songs isn't really necessary. I'd say high-profile guest vocal work, such as with Bright Eyes, should be noted as well. Her work on Gram Parsons' solo albums belong on the "other appearances" chart as well.

Structurally, the other appearances chart could benefit from dropping the contribution column (of course she is going to sing!). I'm not sure the song length is really necessary. As I just suggested, the source column could also be a space for general "notes" about the work. Perhaps change the heading to source/notes. — WiseKwai 18:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Dropped the contributions column (outvoted and I agree). Keeping the other appearance here per your clear and convincing rationale. Leaving time column because it is considered essential in the album project and unless all of these albums get their own entry, it is data that will not be available elsewhere. Also, trying multiple songs from the same album with one song per row so as not to lose song title/time/producer/etc and keep the structure consistent. Are you convinced? Rubioblanca 23:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I was trying to think of ways to make it simpler. But you're doing the work. Ultimately, that's what convinces me. It looks good. — WiseKwai 04:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Solo vs Collaboration in Other Appearances

I just finished adding collaborative other appearances from the July 5 2007 version of the Emmylou Harris article. Now they need to have the rest of the data filled in. Still pending are the half dozen or so solo appearances from that list. Should they go in the same list? Perhaps at the top? Rubioblanca 17:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I wondered about her solo efforts, too. For example her Brokeback Mountain contribution and other one-off soundtrack efforts (Planes, Trains and Automobiles!) will need to be cataloged, and I guess at the top of the list with a blank space for collaborators (herself!) is as good a place as any. — WiseKwai 18:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

References

I'm trying to make a seperate footnote section at the bottom of the Other Appearances that would just contain extended notes. I can't use the "ref" tag because those are collected in the references section and don't know how to collect from the note_label template. Anyone have an example of multiple notes sections that we can crib. (I rejected the superscript hack from the charted singles table because the note - text link is maintained by hand). The Allison Krauss entry is the testbed.

Also, I noticed there is a liner notes template and style requested for using such references. Sigh! How soon do we need to comply? Rubioblanca 18:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I find the instructions for notes coding pretty confusing and ambiguous. The solution I found still requires a certain amount of hand-coding, so it isn't perfect, but at least it's there. As far as as the liner notes template and the "need to comply": What's the rush? Who's pushing for compliance? If the list goes up for a featured list, that's a good time to comply. But for now, in the construction stages, I see no reason to be concerned, as along as a consistent style is adopted. — WiseKwai 18:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances -- Tom Astor

Tom Astor is a German country singer (not a typo) and has an article in the German wikipedia. I am not sure of the cross wiki (transwiki) linking policy and whether or not to create a soft redirect. Anyone with more knowldege of how to do this? Rubioblanca 05:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances Transfer

I think I finished grabbing all of the formerly deleted other appearances from the Emmylou Harris article. I used content from the archived articles dated July 5 and September 21 2007. Did I get them all?

If I did, I think the next stage is to walk through all of the entries and validate them against All Music Guide. I'm also check cmt.com and two online music stores (amazon and cd universe) to validate data. If I actually have one of the discs I also check the liner notes. This takes 5-15 minutes per song depending on obscurity. With around 200 entries (about 30 validated so far) there's a lot of work left. I'll commit to at least 2/day (hopefully more). Anyone else want to jump on this? Rubioblanca 05:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll plug away at it. Little by little, it'll get there. Rivertorch 03:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances -- The McGarrigle Hour

I'd like to add the three relevant songs from this album but am not sure where to put them since we're alphabetizing by collaborator(s). It is not strictly a Kate and Anna McGarrigle album. How about "various artists"? Which leads to another question: how inclusive do you think we should be on video and film appearances? The video release of The McGarrigle Hour features Emmylou on exactly one song. (P.S. You all are doing a fantastic job on this page. Thanks for all the hard work.) Rivertorch 06:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I've been alphabetizing by song collaborator and ordering collaborators by who did the album, then by songwriter if they collaborated and then arbitrary choice. As long as the table is static (unsortable), I'm hesitant to go to multiple entries per song (1 per collaborator) as I think that would add too much extra length. In your case, if the McGarrigle sisters played on the three songs, I'd probably put them there. Alternatively, we could break out Soundtracks, various artist compilations, tributes, duets, etc. into their own sections, reducing the size of the master list but adding categorization complexity. Who would have thought there was so much thinking involved in organizing a discography? Rubioblanca 07:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. You're probably familiar with The McGarrigle Hour: on two of the three songs featuring Emmylou, she sings with Kate and Anna, while the third features lead vocals from several people besides Emmylou. Oh, well . . . I'll figure it out. Rivertorch 17:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Umm. Nope I wasn't familiar with this recording. After gadding about online for awhile, I'd list them all as McGarrigle followed by whoever else was on the cut (Wainright, Rondstadt, et al). I wonder if this is when they (Emmylou & the Sisters) wrote "All I Left Behind." What is curiouser? Rubioblanca 20:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Not sure about "All I Left Behind." Emmylou has had some dealings with the McGarrigles for a long time, recently and notably on Stumble Into Grace. (Sorry about the curiouser; I'm channeling Lewis Carroll today. I only meant there seems to be an endless array of twists and turns in the discography project.) Rivertorch 03:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances -- Jonathan Edwards

Emmylou appears on Jonathan Edwards Rockin' Chair album (1976). She's credited at the album level with Acoustic guitar and Supporting vocals. She could be on all tracks, since it's an Ahern produced album, but listening to the album I could not positively identify her voice (I think she's part of the chorus that backs all of the songs). How should we treat albums like this? There are around 50 appearances not yet in the listing and many of them do not list participation by specific song. The discography appears to be making decent progress. Thanks for cleaning up after me (specifically Rivertorch and Wisekwai); if I don't have the album, I'm relying on All Music for information and that means an extra level for mistakes to creep in. Rubioblanca 22:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I can ask around but am not certain of learning anything definitive (and risk violating the original-research taboo if I do). It's a dilemma. Rivertorch 04:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances -- Multiple instances

Currently the entry for Willie Nelson's "'Til I Gain Control Again" lists another album containing the song. This presents a small quandry. Many of the other songs in the list can be found on multiple albums. There are at least 3 copies of "Evangeline" with The Band available on greatest hits compilations, as well as the 3 or so different versions of The Last Waltz itself. I've been using (as best I can) the first instance of a performance. So, the question is: Should we include other pressings of the same performance in the listing? And, if so, how should they be formatted? Rubioblanca 00:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I vote no to all but first pressings. This article will get way out of control if we go down that road. Rivertorch 04:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with River. I'll remove the reference to the Greatest Hits compilation. Harris sings on several other tracks on Willie and Family Live, but the only one I could verify was that song, because I just have the Great Hits comp with me right now. — WiseKwai 20:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous Stuff

Emmylou has a CD called Artist's Choice: Emmylou Harris It's a set of songs selected by Emmylou as important to her, but without her as part of the performance. She writes about each of the 16 cuts and what is means to her. What do we do with it? She's also written liner notes a few times on albums she otherwise had no participation with. Should these authorships be listed? Rubioblanca 01:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so. The Artist's Choice CD was part of a series (sponsored by Starbucks if memory serves) and certainly has no place in her discography because she had no part in the artistry or production. Maybe a brief aside in the main article might be warranted, but I'm dubious of the encyclopedic value of it. The liner notes aren't part of her discography, either. Rivertorch 04:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

River's opinion about this seems reasonable, too. I'm not sure how Artist's Choice fits into the discography. — WiseKwai 20:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances: If I Needed You

I'm baffled by this one and can find no reference for it. The allmusic page doesn't help. I'm assuming the Be Here to Love Me CD is based on the film, which I don't recall hearing Emmylou sing in (although she is mentioned a couple times). TVZ may have re-recorded the song with Emmylou or duetted with her at a concert that was taped, but he usually sang that one solo. Anybody have liner notes or otherwise know? Rivertorch 04:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I think whoever added this originally got the album wrong. It should be Texas Rain. This was where I stopped earlier today, because of the same problem. I've been using All Music to validate the starting data set and found errors on around 30 of the entries (from simple typos to entirely the wrong song or album). Oh well, going to sleep now and will finish whatever you leave for me in the morning. Rubioblanca 05:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances: Fair and Tender Ladies

Added info but didn't put Notes link(s) in. Allmusic just says "Carter" for songwriter. I believe it's Maybelle, not A.P. or any other Carter. Do you think this is an acceptable citation: [1] ? Rivertorch 04:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, All Music does point to Mother Maybelle. If you click on the song it will send you to this page [2]. I've been linking all albums to their All Music main pages and then following the credits and song links for more information. As to the citation you suggest, I am hesitant because of the inclusion of lyrics. There are huge questions around copyright and online lyrics that make such sites troublesome. Rubioblanca 05:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh. I missed that link. I'm on dial-up, and sometimes All Music pages don't load completely for me. Rivertorch 16:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Other Appearances: Missing Entries

The following list of albums credit Emmylou as a performer at All Music Guide, but may not specify tracks (I haven't checked many of these). So we know she's on the album (barring All Music errors) but need to check other resources to find more data. There are another 30 or so songs that I can check (have to dig into those stored boxes) that I haven't included here, which I intend to tackle first. On at least one of these (Jonathan Edwards: Rockin' Chair) the liner notes don't help. For the others, I suggest that if you can successfully add the entry to the Other Appeareances tables, or verify that what is on the album has already been listed from a previous pressing, then please delete the line from this list. If your {non-original} research turns up no further information, please note that fact (I bracketted 'liner notes' for Edwards' Rockin' Chair). How do we list albums that we can only credit at the album level? (Suggestion: separate table section) At onset, there are 60 single artist albums and 14 various artists albums. While I tried to weed out obvious compilations, some have surely crept in (both of the Buck Owens' albums look like compilations but maybe they list the original source). Please help if you can. Rubioblanca 16:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The initial format is year : album artist Emmylou credits [comments]

1992 : Beyond the Season 	Garth Brooks	Choir, Chorus
1982 : Walk On 	Karen Brooks	Guitar, Vocals Added without track information
2006 : Nashville 	Solomon Burke	Vocals One track, "We're Gonna Hold On", added to list
1998 : Howlin' at the Moon 	Sam Bush	 
2002 : Johnny Cash & Friends 	Johnny Cash	Performer redundant compilation
1979 : Right or Wrong 	Rosanne Cash	Vocals, Harmony Vocals
1977 : Two Sides to Every Story 	Gene Clark	Vocals
1993 : Traditional 	The Desert Rose Band	Performer
1995 : George Ducas 	George Ducas	Producer Harris did not produce this album
1999 : Mountain 	Steve Earle/The Del McCoury Band	Harmony Vocals
1976 : Rockin' Chair 	Jonathan Edwards	Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, Vocals  Added (no songs known)
1977 : Sail Boat 	Jonathan Edwards	Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, Vocals
1999 : See What You Want to See 	Radney Foster	Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), Performer Added
1995 : Makin' a Mess: Bob Gibson Sings Shel Silverstein 	Bob Gibson	Vocals (bckgr)
1983 : Turn Me Loose 	Vince Gill	Vocals (bckgr) already in discography
1987 : Way Back Home 	Vince Gill	Vocals (bckgr)
1989 : When I Call Your Name 	Vince Gill	Vocals (bckgr) added
1994 : Vince Gill & Friends 	Vince Gill	Vocals (bckgr) compilation
2000 : One Endless Night 	Jimmie Dale Gilmore	Vocals
1977 : Till the End 	Vern Gosdin	Vocals (bckgr)
2004 : Impossible Dream 	Patty Griffin	Vocals (bckgr)
2002 : Winter Marquee 	Nanci Griffith	Harmony Vocals added "Goodnight New York"
1987 : Spring Training 	Carl Jackson	Vocals, Harmony Vocals
1983 : It's Only Rock'n'roll 	Waylon Jennings	Vocals
1993 : Talk About Love 	The Judds	Vocals (bckgr), Performer
1996 : Sling Blade 	Daniel Lanois/Various Artists	Guitar, Vocals, Performer
2000 : Hotcakes & Outtakes: 30 Years of Little Feat 	Little Feat	Vocals Nothing new
2002 : Bluegrass and White Snow: A Mountain Christmas 	Patty Loveless	Vocals (bckgr) added
1994 : Let Them Talk 	Kate MacKenzie	Vocals
2005 : McGarrigle Christmas Hour 	Kate & Anna McGarrigle	Vocals, Choir, Chorus
1995 : Womanly Arts 	Liz Meyer	Vocals
1995 : Your Love and Other Lies 	Buddy Miller	Vocals
1997 : Poison Love 	Buddy Miller	Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals
2004 : Love Snuck Up 	Buddy & Julie Miller	Vocals compilation
2004 : Universal United House of Prayer 	Buddy Miller	Vocals
1993 : Orphans and Angels 	Julie Miller	Performer
2007 : My Last Days on Earth 1981-1994 	Bill Monroe	Vocals, Tenor (Vocal) compilation
1992 : Buck Owens Collection (1959-1990) 	Buck Owens	Guitar, Harmony Vocals, Performer compilation
1996 : Half a Buck: Buck Owens' Greatest Duets 	Buck Owens	Performer compilation
2006 : Complete Reprise Sessions 	Gram Parsons	Vocals, Liner Notes, Author, Mixing, Compilation Producer Added many alternate versions of GP/Grievous Angel
1993 : Slow Dancing with the Moon 	Dolly Parton	Harmony Vocals, Performer
2007 : Dolly Parton and Friends 	Dolly Parton	Guest Appearance
1996 : Secret of Life 	Gretchen Peters	Vocals added
1977 : Aimin' to Please        Mary Kay Place   Guitar, Vocals Added (no songs) 
1976 : Peter Pringle 	Peter Pringle	Vocals (bckgr) Added without track information
1999 : Willin' 	Jon Randall	Harmony Vocals Added
1994 : Cowboys in Love 	Riders In The Sky Added "One Has My Name (The Other Has My Heart)" 
1982 : Get Closer 	Linda Ronstadt	Vocals
2004 : Incessant Spinning [Bonus Track] 	Luthea Salom	Author
2006 : Made of Sand 	Gove Scrivenor	Vocals, Guest Appearance
1974 : Tarzana Kid 	John Sebastian	Vocals
2007 : Different Roads 	The Seldom Scene	Author
1979 : Sweet Temptation 	Ricky Skaggs	Vocals
1992 : Saturday Night & Sunday Morning 	Ralph Stanley	Performer Added "Great High Mountain" w/ Judy Marshall
2007 : Slidin' Home 	John Starling and Carolina Star	Harmony Vocals Added "In My Hour of Darkness"
1999 : Pilgrim 	Marty Stuart	Vocals
2000 : Teddy Thompson 	Teddy Thompson	Vocals (bckgr)
1998 : Popular Demons 	Greg Trooper	Vocals
2000 : Real Live Woman 	Trisha Yearwood	Harmony Vocals Added
1992 : Chrome Dreams 	Neil Young	Vocals This is a bootleg

1990 : Lennon & McCartney Songbook 	Various Artists	Performer Elite Hotel cut
1992 : Stained Glass Hour: Bluegrass and Old-Timey Gospel Mu 	Various Artists	Baritone (Vocal) Added "Crying Holy"
1995 : Amazing Grace [Sparrow] 	Various Artists	Arranger, Producer, Performer Angel Band Cut
1996 : Bruce Springsteen Songbook 	Various Artists	Performer At the Ryman cut
1997 : Inner Flame: Rainer Ptacek Tribute 	Various Artists	Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, Performer One-off contribution, added to list
1998 : Chuck B. Covered: A Tribute to Chuck Berry 	Various Artists	Performer C'est La Vie from Luxury Liner
1998 : Tammy Wynette...Remembered 	Various Artists	Guitar (Acoustic), Percussion, Producer, Performer Added "Golden Ring"
1998 : Treasures Left Behind: Remembering Kate Wolf 	Various Artists	Guitar (Electric), Vocals, Liner Notes One song listed
1999 : White Mansions/Legend of Jesse James 	Various Artists	Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, Singer Added 2 songs
2001 : Poet: A Tribute to Townes Van Zandt 	Various Artists	Performer One song, already listed.
2003 : Just Because I'm a Woman: The Songs of Dolly Parton 	Various Artists	Guitar (Acoustic), Liner Notes from Quarter Moon
2005 : Telluride Bluegrass Festival: Thirty Years [DVD] 	Various Artists	Guitar, Vocals Added
2006 : Prairie Home Companion Duets 	Various Artists	Performer
2006 : Tribute to Nicolette Larson: Lotta Lova Concert 	Various Artists	Guitar (Acoustic), Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), Author Still some background vocal credits that can't be sussed out

Several of these are tribute albums that are covered already. When AMG lists its credits, they list everyone together, as if the albums were a "We Are the World" project or something, with everyone in the same room together. I'll take a look at what I can and help whittle this beast down. Need to start an article on the Jesse James album - one of Paul Kennerley's projects. — WiseKwai 17:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Bootlegs

There are some famous bootlegs referenced on Emmylou's musical friends page, specifically Neil Young's Chrome Dreams with outtakes from American Stars and Bars (not to be confused with the new official Chrome Dreams II) and an album titled Emmylou Harris and James Burton. There is also a version of libelous version of Dylan's "Hurricane" (Desire sessions) with Emmylou's vocals. Additionally, there are at least a dozen Emmylou Harris and the Hot Band bootlegs from 1975-6 alone. My thought is: bootlegs do not belong in the discography, but I would like to check for consensus. Rubioblanca 16:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. — WiseKwai 16:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Rivertorch 18:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

• I and the reality disagree. Bootlegs do belong in the discography but under its own section heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sszorin (talk • contribs) 12:41, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Unspecified Contribution

There are a number of albums which include Emmylou Harris, but that do not on either the liner notes, AMG page, emmylou.net or as yet discovered other available resource list her specific contribution. I would like to add these album level credits to the other appearances section with '?' for the title, composer and length columns. Any thoughts or (even better) better suggestions? Rubioblanca 16:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any better suggestions, though I hate to see question marks. In total, how many albums are you talking about, and by which artists? — WiseKwai 16:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Definitely in the list Jonathan Edwards: Rockin' Chair, Marty Stuart: Let There Be Country, Mary Kay Place: Aimin' to Please, Barry and Holly Tashain: Trust in Me. These are albums where I have access to the liner notes and they don't help. Many of the albums in the unfinished list (above) also fall into this category (especially the ones that are out of print). I think the top end is around 50, but that is a wild guess. My thought is: they deserve to be listed, but I am loathe to create another table (Earle in one table, Edwards in another). Rubioblanca 17:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

If you own (or have access to) these albums and can't tell for sure which songs she's on, then either they have to be omitted from the discography until such a time as that can be established or they need a separate category/new table. By definition, this is an ongoing project, so there's no rush either way, right? Rivertorch 18:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

The albums in question all list her as a contributor at the album level but give no specifics. Picking her out by ear would be OR, so unless there is a publication of production notes available, I don't know how we can determine which specific songs were involved. Or, in other words, I am not sure these entries can ever be verified at the song level. This leaves the dilemma of yet another table separating collaborators into groups by whether or not the songs are known or stuffing them into the existing table with those ugly question marks. I don't think omitting them entirely is an option, as we can verify her participation on the album. You're right there's no rush, but unless we have a way to get the data, there's probably no reason to procrastinate either. Rubioblanca 14:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm really not sure that listening to the album would effectively constitute OR, and even if it does, it is probably a good instance to IAR. Look at it this way: what's the difference between consulting the liner notes on the CD itself (arguably also OR) and popping open the case and playing the disc? The liner notes and disc are part of the same package. Why should using one's eyes be acceptable and using one's ears not be? This rationale only applies, of course, in instances where the presence or absence of Ms. Harris is clearly audible, and there have been a few songs where that's not the case. Rivertorch 17:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't think my ear constitutes a verifiable source, whereas the liner notes do (I don't see how liner notes could be considered OR). Regarding the albums cited above; I've listened to them and am not comfortable saying yeah or nay as to her presence (nay is much easier). I've also found a case where she only plays guitar (George Jones / Keith Richards "Say It's Not You"). On the Jonathan Edwards album she is credited on acoustic guitar as well as supporting vocals and it's one of those Ahern productions from the trailer in the yard which means she could be on all the tracks. There are two other female supporting vocalists on the album eliminating using female voice as the criteria. Short of access to production notes, I don't see how we can confidently list songs from this album, so what do we do with it? Rubioblanca 17:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

According to WP:OR, primary sources include "artistic and fictional works such as poems, scripts, screenplays, novels, motion pictures, videos, and television programs." Music albums aren't specifically mentioned, but I submit that they're analogous to these other art forms. The analogy isn't perfect, however, since all the others are at least partly visual in nature, while the albums themselves (not the liner notes) are purely auditory. This may be a critical difference. Consider: even if imdb.com and all other reliable movie sources vanished tomorrow, we could still verify that it's Johnny Depp's voice in an animated movie without relying on our ears or consulting the DVD liner notes because his name will appear in the credits of the film itself. So I'll grant that music is different from visual media, and I suppose it's arguable that someone is verifiably identifiable by their singing only if they sing, "I am so-and-so" (assuming they're singing truthfully). Grrrrrr.

WP:OR also states: "To the extent that an article or particular part of an article relies on a primary source, that part of the article should . . . only make descriptive claims about the information found in the primary source, the accuracy of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge." Does a thorough familiarity with a certain singer's highly distinctive voice constitute "specialist knowledge"? How about just a basic familiarity? I don't know the answer, but I'm beginning to fear that listening, rather than looking, is verboten when developing WP content. Again, I'm not referring to songs where it isn't clear from listening whether she appears or not. But on songs where she obviously does appear, it seems borderline absurd not to acknowledge that in the article. It's sort of like a hundred credible people seeing a buffalo walk down the street but we can't trust them because the buffalo didn't display a sign reading "buffalo" or stop to submit a DNA sample. After all, maybe standing next to those hundred people were two thousand people who had never heard of a buffalo and thought it was something else. Double grrrrrrr.

All right. Whatever. I have issues with certain interpretations of WP:NOR (which is a laudable policy in theory). Here's the thing, though: I would suggest that if we're going to go strictly by the letter of the law, liner notes might also constitute OR because they are not "easily verifiable." They're published only as part of the album, they cannot be bought separately, there's no public database containing their verbatim contents, they (along with the album they reside with) aren't readily available in most libraries, and they generally cannot be consulted without actually purchasing the album. In other words, the liner notes are an integral part of the album. This amounts to easy verifiability only for anyone who happens to have access to the album, which unfortunately doesn't include the Average Encyclopedia Reader. Am I suggesting we don't rely on liner notes? Hell, no. Of course we should. I'm just taking the letter of the law to its obvious, ludicrous conclusion.

It may be that I'm making too much of this. Here's the short answer: how about just an entry for the album, and either leave the song, songwriter, and track-time cells blank. That way, at least we acknowledge she contributed to the album but we don't need a whole new category. Rivertorch 06:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Works for me. I think maybe we should add an explanatory note. By the way, since the Library of Congress supposedly has copies of music released in the US, does this make the data more verifiable than otherwise? Regarding NOR, there are a lot of strict constructionist interpretation editors that ignore or disallow obvious prima facie evidence calling it OR. Their deletionist philosophy and vandals are, for me, the biggest problems facing Wikipedia. Rubioblanca 17:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Tell me about it. They know nothing about a subject and replace meticulously-worded phrasing with idiocies grabbed from "reliable" sources written by people who also know nothing about the subject. It's enough to make anyone hang up his editing hat and give up. If Emmylou sent in a sworn affidavit affirming that she contributed to such-and-such a song, this wouldn't satisfy the letter of the NOR policy. If she sent the affidavit to USA Today and they published it, then it would. Go figure. But I digress. Some liner notes don't break down contributors by song, so it is likely that some blanks will always remain in this chart. To be considered verifiable, Library of Congress holdings would have to be specifically cited, I would think. Explanatory note seems unnecessary: if it's left blank, it's obviously because the data hasn't been verified. Rivertorch 19:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Music chart data

WP:CHARTS was referenced in a recent change to the album charts. I do not believe it applies (or should apply) to this article as that guideline appears directed at chart tables included with a single album article and not a discography. I think the removal of peak position information is unwarranted and eliminates information not available easily unless it is included in the tables. The relevant line from the driective is: "Weeks spent at peak position should be mentioned within the article text and not inserted into the table." Including any such text in the context of a discography would mean replicating prose that belongs in album articles and lead to (I believe) unreadable text. Ergo, if it is included here it should be in the tables. Inclusion of the data serves as an additional means to compare album popularity making it useful and thus deserving of reinstatement. Comments? Rubioblanca 13:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As an Emmylou Harris fan, I love the idea of making as much data available as possible about her career, but I personally couldn't care less about her chart performance; her artistry thrives despite the music industry, not because of it. Fifty years from now, a lot of people will care about what songs she collaborated on, but will anyone but a stats-obsessed few care how many weeks Wrecking Ball spent in the top 200? And for those few, there will probably be Wikicharts data they can download into the chip implanted in their brains. Seriously, I lean toward following the guidelines but don't feel strongly about it. If you think it shouldn't apply to certain articles, such as discographies, you could ignore it—but you might consider making a case at Talk:Record charts for changing the guidelines, instead of making an exception for this discography. Rivertorch 19:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've read WP:CHARTS a half dozen times (as well as the talk page). Mention is made of barring "weeks at peak position" from tables. NO mention is made of overall weeks on chart. Discographies are only mentioned in passing on the CHARTS talk page (as a place to potentially place information forbidden from album and song articles). The guideline takes no position on the deleted data. The rationale used to delete the weeks on chart data from the article DOES NOT EXIST, so I will revert the changes. By the way, I am mostly irked that data I spent time gathering was removed without discussion and that the reason cited didn't actually exist. I also don't choose my music based on chart position (although I did just buy Springsteen's Magic which is quite popular at the moment). I added the information because, in my judgement, it has some use in interpreting Ms. Harris' career. Rubioblanca 04:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd say you've made a valid call. Rivertorch 05:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Table Formatting

A Recent change shrunk the table widths in the album section (rationale was for neatness). The original widths were set for consistency (another type of neatness) as per Wisekwai's work with the other appearances tables. So, which is neater:

Tables all the same width (approximately).

Tables as narrow as possible (use width="auto")

Comments? Rubioblanca 13:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, my rationale for fixing the column widths on the appearance tables was for consistency's sake on the appearance tables. I wasn't taking into account the look of the other tables. I think the "auto" width look just fine - the tables don't fill up any more space than they need to. The appearance tables have more information, and they need the whole width of the page show it. — WiseKwai 14:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This change makes Studio, Live and Compilation inconsistent sizes. I was trying to live up to your example. Sigh. Rubioblanca 14:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I see what you're driving at, and I appreciate the sentiment. :) I still don't have a problem with the different-sized tables. They are handling different kinds of data. To me, it's apples and oranges, or maybe in this case, canteloupes and watermelons. — WiseKwai 16:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Aren't Studio, Live and Compilation more like MacIntosh, Granny Smith and Delicious? Rubioblanca 16:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha. Different varieties, yes. And even among them, there are different sizes, colors and flavors. — WiseKwai 16:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

In interest of extending a metaphor to an absurd length: but the size of the bushel they keep them in is the same. Also: let me make that Red Delicious, Yellow Delicous and some other color I can't think of Delicious (eliminate size and (mostly) taste as differences)? The table columns for three of the album types are identical. The only reason the tables are different sizes is due to the length of the album titles and release labels, not because of any difference in content or type. Rubioblanca 17:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

How's it look now?— WiseKwai 05:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it looks wonderful. Good work!! Rubioblanca 18:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Split

A "too long" tag has been placed. I suppose the next step would be to split out the "other appearances" tables? — WiseKwai 14:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As I read the directive, tables and lists are excluded from readable prose making the "too long" tagging spurious. Here's the relevant line from the directive: "For stylistic purposes, only the main body prose[2] (excluding links, see also, reference and footnote sections, and lists/tables) should be counted toward an article's total size, since the point is to limit the size of the main body of prose." Rubioblanca 14:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the tag. Rubioblanca 15:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool. — WiseKwai 17:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Under Construction Tag

Is it time to remove the 'Under Construction' tag? Rubioblanca (talk) 17:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I think so. It's well constructed by now. — WiseKwai 17:02, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the tag. There are still 50-60 albums to add to collaborations. I'll keep at it as I am able to locate liner notes or other viable data resources. For some of them, I already know what the song is, but the resource is not appropriate (e.g. Amazon product page). Oh, well. Rubioblanca (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

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Confusion in Singles and other issues

For example - Emmylou Harris is not credited on the label of "Love Hurts" single. She is a session player there. You cant call it her guest single (as we cant call it James Burton guest single for example only because he played guitar on this one). Same for "Hangin' On", "Yesterday's Gone", "Thing About You" - she's not credited there as an artist, she just session vocalist. See 45cat.com or discogs.com

On the other hand, "That Lovin' You Feeling Again" single label says "Roy Orbison & Emmylou Harris". So this single is equal partnership (collaboration), not guest appearance (guests usually credited as "feat" or "with" like in "Play Together Again, Again" or "We Believe In Happy Endings" singles for example). Same thing for "Wild Montana Skies" (John Denver and Emmylou Harris), "The Sweetest Gift" (Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris), "All Fall Down" (George Jones and Emmylou Harris), "Love Don't Care" (Charlie Louvin and Emmylou Harris). She is not a "guest" there.

In the same logic "If I Needed You" is a collaboration single, not her own, because it labeled as "Emmylou Harris and Don Williams" (unlike "Gulf Coast Highway" which labeled "Emmylou Harris with Willie Nelson").

And the one last thing: She did't sell 5.5 millions in the US. There is no such info in the RIAA source. You can't just summarize 9 gold albums + one platinum as exactly 5.5. millions. Gold album means at least 500 thousands. She could sell 600 thousands, 700 thousands and more. Same logic for platinum records. So the only correct way is to state that she sold 8 gold solo albums and 1 gold and one platinum collaboration albums. Additionally there are plenty of reliable sources say she sold 15 millions worldwide - it could be used too--Kursebi (talk) 12:35, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

UPD. I see two possible resonable ways to categorisze her singles. The fist by album type:

• singles from solo albums
• singles from collaboration albums
• singles from other albums (albums by other artists soundtracks, etc)

The second by type of credit/role she got on the particular single:

• main (leading) artist
• equal collaborator
• featured or uncredited artist

Right now I do not see a clear criteria in the Singles section--Kursebi (talk) 16:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC).