Talk:Endell Street Military Hospital/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 08:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Assessment

@G. Moore: I will cross out my comments when they are sorted, please feel free to comment on them, and apologies in advance if I make any errors! Amitchell125 (talk) 08:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Lead section/infobox

(comment about expanding the lead moved further down the page) Unlink London in both the lead section and the infobox (see MOS:OL). -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done Unlinked. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC) I would unlink suffragists, as at present it incorrectly links to National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies (and not all the women at the hospital would have belonged to that organisation). Consider amending the end of the sentence to ‘...entirely staffed by women who supported women's suffrage. Unlinked. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ...was established during the First World War… - ‘during the First World War’ is redundant and needs to be removed. -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done ...by Doctors… - ‘...by the medical pioneers…’ is more accurate. Changed. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Both women… - 'women' is a redundant word here; ...of the British Army is also redundant. -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done None of the citations in the lead section are needed, as the information they cite is not controversial. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Most of the second paragraph does not appear in the main article. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

History
This title is unnecessary. I would remove it and make the subsequent level 3 sections (from 1.1 to 1.8) into level 2 sections. -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done

Hospital

The title doesn't describe the section adequately. Consider amending the title to something like ‘Location’. Changed to Establishment -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done The image is stunning—and I would swap it with the black and white photograph used in the infobox, as the b/w one is imo more relevant for this section. Switched -- Talk to G Moore 03:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done I would link 'Union Workhouse', not just Workhouse. -- Talk to G Moore 03:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done located is redundant. -- Talk to G Moore 03:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC) -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done A majority of the hospital equipment… - should be ‘Most of the hospital equipment…’. -- Talk to G Moore 03:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC) -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done ...which was shut down because of a lack of patients as well as a destination change for injured soldiers from France to England. - this needs to be copy edited to improve the prose. Improved. Dormskirk (talk) 16:01, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Ref 2 (Geddes 2007) put the number of nightly arrivals as high as 80; the article doesn't mention this. Now inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 16:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ... the hospital was active. - ‘... it was active’ sounds better. Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 16:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ... in close proximity to… - ‘… close to…’. -- Talk to G Moore 03:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done There were hundreds of stations throughout the city, so this word would be confusing. I would replace it with something like 'main railway stations'. ...when the convoys arrived. - this sounds as if the convoys deliberately arrived during the night – am I correct? The convoys often arrived at night with as many as 80 soldiers. Reworded. -- Talk to G Moore 03:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done The women doctors performed upwards of 7,000 operations during that time. is not verified by Ref 3 (BBC). Changed to 20 operations per day as verified by Geddes. Dormskirk (talk) 16:18, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Staff

The subsections 'Staff', 'Women's Hospital Corps', 'The Women's Social and Political Union influence at Endell Street Military Hospital', 'Tension with the Royal Army Medical Corps', 'Contributions' and '1918 flu pandemic' are all short sections and need to be replaced by a single title ('The staff', or something similar). Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 16:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Endell Street Military Hospital was staffed entirely by suffragettes. - is incorrect (it is said three times in the article). Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 16:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC) with Murray and Anderson is redundant. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 16:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC) When that hospital closed its doors… - closed its doors is an idiom (see MOS:IDIOM) and so can’t be used. Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 16:33, 1 October 2020 (UTC) At Endell Street, these women worked in what was considered female-appropriate jobs… - improve the English by writing ‘There, these women worked in what was considered to be female-appropriate jobs…’. Link orderlies; dentists; pathologists; surgeons. -- Talk to G Moore 03:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done drivers needs to be clarified – see Driver for the choice of links available, as I’m not sure which would the correct one. Linked to Chauffeur. Dormskirk (talk) 16:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Could ...more masculine employment be phrased more eloquently? The hospital also… - also is redundant. -- Talk to G Moore 03:23, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done ...a great number of volunteers daily. - a great number is too vague, and the sentence needs to be copy edited to improve the prose. Deleted. Dormskirk (talk) 16:43, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ...would visit with… - ‘...visited…’. Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 16:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Gardeners would help in the courtyard and ward visitors would often come, some only wishing to visit with lonely patients as they did not have family or friends in the hospital. - I would amend this to something like ‘Gardeners helped in the courtyard and people without family or friends at the hospital came to spend time with a lonely patient.’. Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 16:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Volunteer in the caption is redundant, and the caption in this case should not have a full stop (refer to WP:CAPFRAG). Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 16:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Men did in fact play a supportive role at the hospital (as stated in Ref 2 (Geddes)), so it cannot be said that the hospital was staffed only by women. Amended to "clinicians". Dormskirk (talk) 16:57, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ...which tended to be considered more masculine employment. requires a citation, as it is not verified by Ref 2 (Geddes). Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 17:43, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Women's Hospital Corps The first paragraph is imo in the wrong place in the article, as it deals with events that took place at the start of the war. Now moved to first section. Dormskirk (talk) 17:41, 1 October 2020 (UTC) The Women's Social and Political Union influence at Endell Street Military Hospital In the long run,.. is idiomatic, and should be replaced with a more suitable phrase. Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 17:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ...the women kept the suffrage movement and their hospital duties separate. - sounds unconvincing to me. I think you need to add how they accomplished this. Removed, as I do not know the answer and it is not sourced. Dormskirk (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Tensions with the Royal Army Medical Corps ...due to their feminine touches – feminine touches needs to be in quotation marks (as done in Ref 2 (Geddes)) to avoid it sounding editorial or sexist to readers. You might find WP:WAW an interesting commentary on writing about women in Wikipedia. Also, the sentence could be improved by being clearer about how dull military wards in those days looked. Now in quotation marks. Dormskirk (talk) 17:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Contributions a total of is redundant. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC) You don’t need ...one of the world's oldest and best known general medical journals.. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:07, 1 October 2020 (UTC) ... in collaboration… - amend to ‘...written in collaboration…’. Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Link anaerobic infection. Linked. Dormskirk (talk) 19:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC) I found the url for Ref 7 (PMC) – presumably it is https://www.populationmedia.org/2012/07/13/prestigious-medical-journal-the-lancet-issues-family-planning-series/. However, it doesn’t appear to verify the text in the article. Alternative source now used. Dormskirk (talk) 19:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 1918 flu pandemic Is this noteworthy? Every hospital had to admit flu patients at this time. Now removed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Closure
The photograph is an interesting one to include in the article, but it doesn’t belong in this section. Moved. Dormskirk (talk) 19:18, 1 October 2020 (UTC) closed its doors is idiomatic (see above). Amended. Dormskirk (talk) 19:19, 1 October 2020 (UTC) What happened to the building once the hospital had gone? Explanation now inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:26, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Expanding the article

The lead section needs to be expanded so that as well as being a concise summary, it includes more of the main points of the article. I can come back to specifics when the main article is more complete. Expanded a bit for now. More may be needed. Dormskirk (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Thanks Amitchell125 (talk) 20:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC) The sources available to you need to be checked with a view to expanding the article, as there is information missing at present. The auxiliary hospitals are not mentioned for instance, and a quick search on the internet brings up possible other sources and areas worth mentioning—this refers to contemporary press cuttings, seasonal entertainment; this refers to a lost plaque; this film from Digital Drama looks good enough to include. There may be others. Agreed that more could be added: I have added something on the visit of Queen Amalie, the plaque and the film. I will let G. Moore give thought to what more to add. Dormskirk (talk) 20:44, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Add an OCLC number for Ref 1 (942611802). Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC) A second copy at archive.org. seems to be redundant. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC) I am unclear why there is a long quote in this section (in Ref 2 (Geddes)) and why it is not in the main text. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Add {{Not a typo|''and''}} to and in the title of Ref 2 (Geddes). Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC) No need for the location for Ref 2 (Change England to 'Cambridge' if you want to have one). Changed. Dormskirk (talk) 19:41, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Use https://www.isbn.org/ISBN_converter to ensure your ISBN numbers are formatted consistently. Converted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:43, 1 October 2020 (UTC) I would add a location for Ref 4 (Escott). Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 19:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Ref 5 (Geddes 2006) needs to be formatted correctly (if possible use the {{cite journal}} template). Changed template. Dormskirk (talk) 19:50, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Ref 1 (Murray) requires a page number (or more likely, separate page numbers) for each citation in the article. Page numbers inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Add a {{subscription required}} template to Ref 5 (Geddes 2006). Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 20:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Ref 6 (Hacker & Vining) needs a {{subscription required}} template. Inserted. Dormskirk (talk) 20:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Further reading
Link Wendy Moore. -- Talk to G Moore 03:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)  Done The BBC programme is now a dead link and so needs to be removed. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 20:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

External links
I’m not sure the second link ("Details of photograph of staff 1916 held at Senate House Library, London". University of London.) is needed. Removed. Dormskirk (talk) 20:23, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

On hold

This is an interesting topic for an article, but it needs quite a lot of work to being it up to GA level. The article has been placed on hold until 7 October 31 October to address the comments listed above. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:50, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

@G. Moore: Hi, I'm not sure your talk page has been sent the automatic 'article now on hold' message, so I'm pinging you to let you know, and I'll something to you talk page as well. Regards. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@Amitchell125: Thanks for the feedback on the article, a lot of good feedback Hopefully, I can get some help from others (@Dormskirk:, et al). I am in the middle of moving and can't spend a lot of time on Wikipedia for the next couple of weeks. -- Talk to G Moore 02:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@G. Moore: That's fine, ping me in a few weeks when you've done some more work. The process can continue on then. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Amitchell125: Many thanks for all your feedback: I have responded to most of the material, all of which I agree with. I cannot guarantee that I have got everything right, however! Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 20:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Dormskirk: All looks fine so far, I'll wait the article to grow some more in due course. Thanks for your efforts. Amitchell125 (talk) 22:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Amitchell125: No problem. I am sure it will grow some more when G. Moore has completed his house moving! Thanks and best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 22:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@G. Moore and Dormskirk: Hi G. Moore, can you let me know if you have completed your work on the expansion of the article and the lead section, so that I can complete this review? Thanks Amitchell125 (talk) 07:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Amitchell125 and Dormskirk: I added a few additional facts that were noteworthy and expanded the summary to include major points about the hospital. I think that it is ready for your review. -- Talk to G Moore 11:10, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I can't see any problems now. It's a decent article, so passing now, Amitchell125 (talk) 16:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Amitchell125: Many thanks for that. Dormskirk (talk) 18:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)