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Talk:England cricket team/Archive 1

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Latest comment: 6 years ago by Spike 'em in topic Article title
Archive 1

Crest

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Isn't that the ECB logo? England shirts don't have ECB written on them.--Adzz 08:10, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It looks like it. also, it may be worth putting that the number underneath the badge on a player's shirt shows that he is the #th player ever to play for the team i.e. Michael Vaughan's number is 400 so he is the 400th player ever to appear for England etc. Bizzmag 21:41, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-English players

Latest comment: 8 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

PaddyBriggs just wrote:

Whilst most England Test cricketers have been English there have also been players from the other nations which comprise the United Kingdom and further afield. England has been captained by Welshmen (Tony Lewis); Scotsmen (Mike Denness) and South Africans (Tony Greig) and has had many players who were born or born and bred overseas. In recent times Andrew Caddick (New Zealand); Geraint Jones (Papua New Guinea); Andrew Strauss (South Africa) and Kevin Pietersen (South Africa)have, amongst others, become England Test cricketers.

Which is all true and interesting, but it seems to me that there are two different things going on here. Welsh players are entitled to play for England automatically. I don't remember if the same is true of Scots. However, the other players have some sort of family connection which makes them officially partly English. This is of course not specific to England or to cricket — in all sports there are always people who are qualified to play for two countries.

What I'm getting at is that it would be nice to say something more about the qualification rules for being an England cricketer, so that we don't imply that England is somehow a special case. (Although it would also be nice to know whether it's benefited more from these rules than other countries). But I'm not certain enough about the precise rules to add this myself. Anyone want to have a go?

Stephen Turner 09:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Andrew Strauss was only born there like matt prior it seams sad we have to put england down —Preceding unsigned comment added by Angellis123 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

WP:NORUSH clearly applies to a question that's been around for over 10 years. I'm adding this link which provides some statistics relating to English test players.
JRPG (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

English or England?

Latest comment: 16 years ago11 comments6 people in discussion

Myu view is that the correct title for this entry would be the "England" cricket team not the "English" cricket team; not least beacuse there are (or have been) Welsh, Scottish and Irish players in the side! PaddyBriggs 08:04, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

We had a long discussion about this a few months ago. I don't remember the reason for using nationalities, and I definitely agree with you in preferring country names, but I'm sure there was a reason for the choice. Stephen Turner 10:00, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes and shame on these Welsh, Scots and Irish for playing for England. The notion that this is a Welsh team somehow, or that Scots should play for it, has stunted the growth of cricket in these countries, and reinforced the notion it is essentially an English game.--86.150.34.153 (talk) 22:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks a little odd. it does seem that it was decided that the adjective "English" or "Pakistani" or "Indian" is preferable to the country name. However in cricket parlance we always refer to "England" or "India" or "Pakistan" (etc.) and you will not find the adjective used as the descriptor of the team in any cricket record or reference books. PaddyBriggs 10:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually you do - on tours it's always said "Australians in England", "West Indians in Pakistan", that kinda thing. (However, I believe England is an exception - they used to be MCC and are now England?) Sam Vimes 10:16, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Sam. You are quite right that in non Test matches the convention is (now) that we refer to the "West Indians" or the "Australians" in matches they play on tours that are not Test matches or One Day Internationals (expect for the England touring team who are always "England"). However in Test matches it is always "West Indies" or "Australia" or "England"...The entries about the national teams are (rightly) all about International matches not at all about the touring sides. So I stick to my view that the correct descriptor of the teams is the "England" or "Australia" (etc.) Cricket team. Another reason is both grammatical and accuracy concerned. Kent (or Surrey or Middlesex) are "English" cricket teams but not of course England cricket teams. The only England cricket team is the one that plays for England! PaddyBriggs 10:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

What I meant was when Wisden, Cricinfo or Cricketarchive write about a team touring another, they put "West Indians in Australia in 2005-06". I agree with you, though, but I think we should go one further and align ourselves with the rest of the sports in Wikipedia - we have England national football team, England national basketball team, England national rugby union team, England national rugby league team, so I don't really see any reason why we shouldn't use the precise England national cricket team Sam Vimes 11:03, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I think we should discuss this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket, because it's clearly of wider interest than just the people watching this page. I'll move the conversation so far, and we can carry on the discussion there, OK? Stephen Turner 11:49, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Why "English" not "England Cricket Team"? I've never heard it referred to as anything but England. Warwickshire or Little Piddington are English cricet teams, but there is only one England cricket team. Chris R 23:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

This was already discussed above. Stephen Turner (Talk) 02:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Hidden in a discussion about non-English players! Now moved the heading and this thread to make it clear.

It's a nonsense to call it the English cricket team, it's the England cricket team, the same with all the other international teams, eg the Indian cricket team should be the India cricket team.--RMHED 22:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Greatest ever matches

Latest comment: 19 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This is an arbitrary and subjective selection. I think that it should be removed. What do others think? PaddyBriggs 10:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I tend to agree. However, if we do remove them, I would like to see more on those matches in the section about each decade (especially Headingley 1981 and Edgbaston 2005, which are part of the folklore of English cricket). Stephen Turner 10:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

UK Team

Latest comment: 18 years ago18 comments7 people in discussion

I have reintroduced the statement that England is a "de facto" UK team. Seems obviously true to me, just look at the history. English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish players have all played for England.And they could again. Not an opinion, a fact! PaddyBriggs

Wikipedia:No original research. --Mais oui! 17:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Bollocks! Look at Wisden if you need proof! PaddyBriggs 17:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand how Wikipedia works. If you want to include new information, it is you who must provide the source, not other editors.--Mais oui! 17:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Let's not get overheated about this! This is not "new information" and I have no need to cite a source. It is included early in the piece because it is, on the face of it, odd that a team with players from across the UK is called "England". But it is a historical oddity that goes back to the earliest days of cricket. I could put together a list of Scots (etc.) who have played for England. Similarly I could point to the strong Scottish, Welsh and Irish support that England (cricket !) always gets. Self-evidently England is a de facto (if not de jure) UK team! PaddyBriggs 18:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

"I have no need to cite a source" Indeed? Most remarkable news. Why? Are you in possession of a unique dispensation from Jimbo Wales? You may think that something is "self-evident", but that is merely your personal opinion, and constitutes original research,... unless of course you produce a bona fide source.
"Let's not get overheated about this" Eh, it is you who has used an expletive. Calm down and try to be a bit more professional.--Mais oui! 18:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

It's still not clear to me whether all Scots and Northern Irish are automatically eligible to play for England, or whether they have to qualify by ancestry or residence in exactly the same way as (say) a South African or a Papua New Guinean. I think if we resolve that point, the paragraph will fall into place. Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The player eligibility rules are at http://www.icc-cricket.com/rules/player_eligibility.pdf (PDF). I don't see anything that treats Scots or Northern Irish as more privileged to play for England than any other national. So the opening paragraphs seem misleading to me. I think I'll try rewriting them. Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I've rewritten it, and also made it less prominent. I have removed the claim that Scots and Northern Irish are somehow more privileged than other nationalities. If this is in error, please correct it, with a source. Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Stephen Any citizen of the United Kingdom is eligible to play cricket for England. Thus the England team is a de facto UK team and always has been. Qualification (of course) does not apply for those who are already British nationals! Anyone with British nationality can play for England. This is not as the absurd and provocative Scot "Mais oui!" Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by administrators or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. seems to think my opinion but a very obvious fact! To suggest that Mike Denness needed to qualify by residence to play for England is ignorant and ridiculous ! Nothing has chnages since Denness's day. There is no such thing as a Scottish passport! PaddyBriggs 09:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember Gavin Hamilton had to qualify through residence; he certainly had to when he wanted to return to Scotland... Sam Vimes 10:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC). Scratch that. Sam Vimes 10:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I support the excellent, intelligent edit made by Stephen Turner, and have thus reverted the unsourced personal opinion of the unprofessional PaddyBriggs. I have requested that he desist from making personal attacks on his Talk page. If an administrator is reading this, I would appreciate some input, otherwise I will request it elsewhere.--Mais oui! 13:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I do not think that my remarks constituted a personal attack and I am sorry that you so perceived them. Sorry if I offended, that was not my intent. Regards.PaddyBriggs 13:58, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Paddy wrote: Stephen, Any citizen of the United Kingdom is eligible to play cricket for England.
Could you cite a source for that, Paddy? My reading of the ICC regulations is that they seem to say the opposite. I may be "ignorant and ridiculous" but it's still not "very obvious" to me that those players didn't qualify through some English ancestry. Thank you.
Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:08, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


Hmm, well I've googled and found this [1], on the ECB website which says

"Subject to the overriding discretion of the ECB, acting with the consent of the International Cricket Council, a Cricketer will only be qualified to play for England in a Test Match or in a One Day International Match if: (a) he is either a British citizen or an Irish citizen; and either (i) he was born within England and Wales; or (ii) he has been resident in England and Wales for the immediately preceding four consecutive years; and (b) he has not during the immediately preceding four consecutive years either (i) played cricket for any Full Member Country except England at under 17 level or above, or (ii) played First Class Cricket in any Full Member Country outside England and Wales, except as an overseas cricketer under local rules similar to Regulation 3 above or in any other circumtances approved by the ECB; and (c) he makes, whenever requested by the ECB, a declaration in the form set out in the Annex to this Regulation; and (d) he is also qualified for England pursuant to the provisions laid down from time to time by ICC. .
I found this easily enough on google (putting 'ECB Regulations Qualification for England' into Google seemed obvious to me, anyway) Average Earthman 16:33, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
That is fine Googling, and certainly ought to be included in the article.--Mais oui! 17:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
The above does imply that Scottish and Northern Irish players are not automatically eligible to play for England, so maybe it should be made clear in the article. If anyone else has the 2005 Wisden Almanack, on page 808, in Yorkshire's squad, it gives John Blain's country as Scotland only, whereas in the Warwickshire squad on page 779 in gives Dougie Brown's country as England/Scotland, thus implying that as of publication, John Blain was NOT eligible for England selection, whereas Dougie Brown was eligible for both England and Scotland. Thoughts anyone? User:Andrew nixon 23:18, 12th March 2006 (UTC)
In addition, the section on player eligiblity refers to players qualifying throught parentage. This is not actually possible these days. Kevin Pietersen has an English parent and had to qualify through residence. It also describes Monty Panesar as being from the Indian subcontinent. Panesar was born in Luton, which last time I looked at a map, wasn't anywhere near the Indian subcontinent. Andrew nixon 11:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, this makes it quite clear that Scots are not automatically eligible to play for England; they must qualify by birth or residence. I've rewritten the section again, citing both the ICC and ECB regulations this time. Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus. —Nightstallion (?) 09:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move, 2006

Latest comment: 18 years ago7 comments6 people in discussion

English cricket team → England cricket team – {Team represents England and Wales, not just the English} copied from the entry on the WP:RM page

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Discussion

Add any additional comments

All the national team articles should be consistently named, so this rename ought to be extended to all the other pages in Category:National cricket teams. — sjorford (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Sjorford. Take the discussion to WP:Cricket and move only if the consensus is to move all the team pages. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Have to say, applying this to the Australian team (or should it be the Australia team?) sounds rather unlovely to my ears.. maybe because it ends in a vowel? --Paul 19:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Please Help

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Could someone please tell me the full england cricket team list including subs..everyone. Its for a school project? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.159.190.232 (talk • contribs) .

Well, there's not really subs in cricket. Oh, and please don't delete what other people have said just to get attention to your own question. Currently, the eleven is:
  1. Marcus Trescothick
  2. Andrew Strauss
  3. Alastair Cook
  4. Kevin Pietersen
  5. Paul Collingwood
  6. Andrew Flintoff
  7. Geraint Jones
  8. Liam Plunkett
  9. Jon Lewis
  10. Matthew Hoggard
  11. Monty Panesar
Some players who would normally play in the team are injured, though. Sam Vimes 13:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Templates

Latest comment: 18 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I've removed {{English cricket seasons from 1890}} from the bottom because that seems more pertinent to Cricket in England, and it's not clear why only this limited number of seasons (with some very nice articles, incidentally) is there. TheGrappler 00:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it was added when the template covered all seasons from 1890 to 2005. There's been some reorganisation now and I had just forgotten it was there any more. No complaints for me. (and thanks for the compliment on the articles. ;)) Sam Vimes 10:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The main template in the top right appears to have an error. "Test matches - this year" is "3", but for "Wins/Losses - this year" is "2/2", implying 4 matches. Which is it?

Current Form and Future Prospects Section

Latest comment: 17 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Ginandtonic 13:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC) Hi, I'm new to Wikipedia and I added this section without first checking all the rules and regs and the discussion page. Now I realise that perhaps I shouldn't have waded in so quickly, but I thought rather than just removing it, it would be better to leave it for other editors to improve as they see fit. I certainly think that some sort of summary of the team's form and prospects would be good to have, but perhaps you think it's too subjective? I also added the bits for some of the injured players about 'future career prospects uncertain', as I thought that describing eg Simon Jones as a current player, when he hasn't actually played for England for a year, seemed a bit misleading. The current players list does need a bit of cleanup and elaboration; I think it would be good to list each player's county, and to make the descriptions conform to the Wisden standards.

I agree with most of what you've written there: there ought to be a small section on current form, but not too big (we don't want to be too biased towards the present), and speculation such as the last bit on World Cup performance is right out (although you can say that "BBC commentator Jonathan Agnew has suggested that England will struggle at the World Cup", if you can find a source for him saying that). I'll try to get something done about it. Sam Vimes | Address me 11:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I did the form table below the form section a couple of days ago. I think this is a non-biased way of showing England's current form, does anyone agree or should it be removed? I think the table shows that England are formidable at home Test matches and India shouldn't underestimate us! :) Monsta666 22:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Rating

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Things this article needs to do to get improved (I think it's B-class at present):

  • Rework the long list of records (maybe split off into different lists)
  • History between 1900 and 1981, Bodyline excepted, needs to be expanded
  • Similarly, history in the 1990s and 2000s needs to be split into separate articles
  • Some information on the stadiums (that England have had five Test grounds since about 1903, with some reference to the minor Cardiff controversy for 2009)
  • Ought to have a section on the Barmy Army
  • The relative prestige of Tests and ODIs (if references can be found for England caring more about Tests)

Sam Vimes 10:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Onions & Co.

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I don't really think Graham Onions should be included on the players list, as he didn't actually play a game for England. Arguably Glenn Chapple and Tim Bresnan should be, though, although it's fairly evident they won't be involved anymore. HornetMike 23:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thoughts of User Cajad

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have just joined Wikipedia. I think that the section on the 2000s gives rather a wrong perspective of the current England team. In particular, I think that the 2005 Ashes series, which was universally hailed as one of the greatest ever, does not have its importance or excitement fully stressed.

Also, under the 'Recent Form and Future Prospects' section, it is an exaggeration to say that 'several' England players seem unlikely to play again. Currently, only Michael Vaughan and Simon Jones have no comeback date set, and given that they have both been awarded central contracts it would seem that their medical team would not even agree with the prediction that they may not play again. Other than those two I can think of no-one who seems unlikely to play again, and even if you think those two won't play again, 'several' is too strong a word. I have therefore changed it to the current version.

In the same section, whilst a detailed record of England's current one-day form was provided, it left out the most recent one-day series against Pakistan, which is also not mentioned in the 2000s section. I have added it to the 'Recent Form' section and linked to the page on the series. I have kept in the section about England being unlikely to win the World Cup, but is it Wikipedia's job to speculate on this? Would it not be more factual to say that the team's official ICC ranking suggests they are outsiders for the World Cup?

I put this in it's own section, as it's a different query. HornetMike 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Article is hopelessly incomplete

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I presume a B rating for "quality" is supposed to be "good" and if so I think the person who made the award needs to learn something about cricket because England did play cricket during 1900-1932 and from 1933 to the inevitable year of 1981. Furthermore, for nearly all of those years, we actually had a very good team, unlike the disappointing one of the 1980s and the absolutely shambolic one of the 1990s.

Instead of diligently writing up the doings of Botham & Co., as per usual, how about some attention to the full scope of the article? --BlackJack | talk page 18:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I have started to try and get a decent chronological synopsis of England's international history with a section on the 1900s and intend to follow this with similar length/style entries for the other decades. I would welcome comments from all on my first effort (the 1900s) - is this on the right track? PaddyBriggs 10:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

bowling feats

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

More of a general knowledge question,

  • Denis Lillee was caught Peter Willey bowled Graham Dilley at 4.08 p.m. on the fourth day of the Perth test in 1979.

Why is that a bowling feat? SGGH speak! 21:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Lilley c. Willey b. Dilley. It's kinda amusing that they all rhyme. Though sorta irrelevant.. Bobo. 19:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent form

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"Some have also claimed that they seemed to suffer from a lack of focus and 'killer instinct'." "several new players have emerged who have performed well and promise much for the future, leading to suggestions that even when the injured players recover, they may struggle to get back into the team" These assertions could possibly do with some citations to back them up.

"the first Sikh to play Test cricket for England" I don't really see how this is relevant. I guess Ranjitsinhji was probably the first Hindu to play for England (?) but unless we are going to record the debut of all the world's major religions then this sounds like Monty's main claim to fame is being a Sikh rather than a match-winning bowler. Do you agree? Ignore me if you don't.

"He was one of the favourites to win BBC Sports Personality of the Year, but did not receive the award" I think this is called bathos. Is it intentional? I doubt it.

None of the references at the end of this section seem to lead to any footnotes. Have they perhaps been inadvertantly edited out?

--Dominic Sayers 15:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Major overhauling...

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I am going to attempt a major revamp of the page. Here is revision of the page before my edits [2]. Monsta666 21:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Squad

Latest comment: 16 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

Isn't it time the likes of Geraint Jones and Sajid Mahmood were removed? The chances of them playing for England again is practically nil. Speedboy Salesman 12:47, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I proposed on the cricket project page that all players who have played in the last year are included in squad list in national team pages, only got one response but it was positive. I agree that Mahmood and Jones are unlikely to pay for England in the near-future, but the 1-year limit is non-POV and covers players who might have been out injured for sometime. I'd be happy to contribute to a conversation if you wanted to bring it up again at the cricket project.

On a related note, I've just done this table to cover when a player's time runs out on the squadlist, in each form and overall. I will keep it updated. Cheers, 18:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HornetMike (talk • contribs)

Name Test ODI Twenty20
Tim Ambrose 2 March 2009 28 June 2008 13 June 2008
James Anderson 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Gareth Batty 29 March 2009 15 March 2009
Ian Bell 7 February 2009 23 November 2008 13 June 2008
Ravi Bopara 2 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Stuart Broad 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Tim Bresnan 18 August 2008
Paul Collingwood 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Alastair Cook 10 March 2009 26 November 2008
Steven Davies 15 March 2009
Andrew Flintoff 19 February 2009 3 April 2009
Steve Harmison 19 February 2009 3 April 2009
Amjad Khan 10 March 2009 15 March 2009
Dimitri Mascarenhas 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Monty Panesar 10 March 2009
Samit Patel 26 November 2008
Darren Pattinson 21 July 2008
Kevin Pietersen 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Matthew Prior 10 March 2009 3 April 2009
Owais Shah 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Ryan Sidebottom 2 March 2009 28 June 2008
Andrew Strauss 10 March 2009 3 April 2009 15 March 2009
Graeme Swann 10 March 2009 26 November 2008 13 June 2008
Chris Tremlett 21 June 2008
Michael Vaughan 2 August 2008
Luke Wright 3 September 2008 13 June 2008

I feel that the classification of the squad is misleading. One should not delineate between openers and middle-order bats as many bats (Michael Vaughan, Vikram Solanki, etc) can take either role. Similarly, I feel that the distinction between all-rounders and bowlers has shades of grey- I would think of Graeme Swann, for example, as a near all-rounder. Who keeps deleting Harmison's squad number? He no longer plays ODIs, but (usually) neither does Hoggard. BartBassist (talk) 00:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The format of separating middle-order batsmen/openers and all-rounders is a fairly standard one across the Wikipedia cricket articles. I agree, it could possibly lead to grey areas - and perhaps should be discussed on WP:CRICKET. Harmison's number gets removed as he has retired from ODI (whilst Hoggard hasn't) and therefore the number is no longer his. Cheers, HornetMike (talk) 17:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

is there a reason luke wright does not apper in the current squad list —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.169.176.120 (talk) 07:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

My edit summary 29/01/08

Sorry about the profanity in my edit summary on the article. I seem to have aquired some virus that adds rude words as I type. Normally I remove them damn (as I'm doing now, gah) but I was typing quickly and didn't see it before I hit return! Any advice on how to remove it, by the way, would be most useful! 01:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HornetMike (talk • contribs)

Deleting facts and feats

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I am going to delete the facts and feats section. It is a list of trivia. See WP:Trivia. The template to relocate this information has been in place since March, and the section in existance since i have been editing WP (2 years or more). This trivia list is quite simply so big and long standing it is hard to see the information being integrated into other articles. If you wish to restore some or all of this information, please integrate it into the main article. Operating (talk) 20:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Racialist bias

Latest comment: 16 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

The title of this page should be 'Wales and England cricket team' or 'England and Wales cricket team. To ignore Wales is not only ignorant but is also racialist. Please ammend or close down this article immediately. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 21:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Wales has its own national cricket team, as does scotland and ireland. Its the england team, and anybody who qualifies can play for the england team, or not, as they choose. Operating (talk) 22:24, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The team, in case you hadn't noticed, plays all it's matches as England, therefore calling it the England and Wales team would be incorrect, even though that's the area it represents. Of course, we do need to mention this as early as possible in the article, which is why the first sentence is "The England cricket team is the national cricket team which represents England and Wales." (emphasis added) Claims of racism are simply nonsense. Andrew nixon (talk) 23:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Never mind the fact that the official name of the team is 'England', so to title this article anything else would be incorrect, regardless of any 'racialist bias'. 91.109.185.42 (talk) 23:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Recent form

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm thinking this section could do with an edit. The entire article could do with a trim and this seems like a good place to start? I'll probably just select the best bits from what's currently there and tie up any recent 'loose ends'. 81.129.89.211 (talk) 14:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism - Spin Bowlers

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The entries in Current Squad seem to have been vandalised at some time - specifically two of the names. 122.107.58.27 (talk) 07:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Current squad section

Latest comment: 15 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Why have an age column which must be a pain in the neck to keep updating? Surely a year of birth column would be more efficient. --Jack | talk page 07:14, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Well the age template is used so updating isn't a problem. If you do wish to add date of birth then there's a birth date and age template which has been implemented at Kent County Cricket Club#Current squad and looks good to my eye. --Jpeeling (talk) 11:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

Latest comment: 13 years ago6 comments6 people in discussion
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

England cricket team → England national cricket team — Move currently blocked because of historic redirect from this name to "England cricket team". To establish consistency with all other major cricket nations, the form "England national cricket team" would ensure compliance. ----Jack | talk page 06:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC) --Jack | talk page 06:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

Comment I think the problem with moving this article to "England national cricket team" is that the English team is the national team of England and Wales, not just England, though it is usually referred to simply as that. During the 2009 Ashes series, a match in Cardiff was one of the team's home games for the first time. As such, I am reluctant to move this article. See also Wales national cricket team. The Celestial City (talk) 13:40, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

England or England and Wales

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Is it officially just the 'England cricket team' (there is a Welsh one) or the 'England and Wales cricket team', in which Welsh players do play? Even the Welsh translation given here, ironically, is just 'Tîm Criced Lloegr', which means 'England Cricket Team' - not referring to Wales at all, thereby rendering the back-bending political correctness of using Welsh at all - the only reason it would ever be here - completely pointless. Something is wrong.

Sorry - didn't read the messages above. But I still think the fact that the Welsh name used doesn't acknowledge Wales (!) shows there's a glaring inconsistency here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.185.146.101 (talk) 19:32, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Update Required

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This article has not been update. Needs to include England test cricket team's series victory in India. In December 2012, England Test team won a series against India in India for the first time since 1984-1985.Life's Kid (talk) 08:57, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Eligibility of Players section needs a clearer explanation

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm finding the Eligibility of Players section really, really confusing. It says:

  • Craig Kieswetter etc are all South-African-born but qualify through British parentage (though they still had to fulfil residency requirements).

That sentence firstly tells me that they qualified through having parents who were British. But then it immediately contradicts itself and says that that parentage was NOT enough to qualify, and they still needed to satisfy a residency requirement. So, if the only thing that mattered was the residency, why mention the parents' citizenship at all?

I've been wondering about this ever since 2008, when I asked a question at Talk:Tony Greig#Qualified to play for England because of his Scottish father?, which has not received any responses to date. With his sad passing yesterday, we're now reading again how he qualified to play for England by having a Scottish father. But again I ask, "So what?". That fact alone would NOT have qualified him to play for England. If his father's Scottishness meant that Tony Greig also acquired British citizenship in his own right, then that citizenship is the pertinent fact we should be mentioning. Not just that his father was Scottish. But Greig was not a British citizen in his own right, and afaik he did not satisfy the 4-year residency requirement either. So, how did he get to play for England? -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 02:17, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Matt Prior vice-captain

Latest comment: 9 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Hi - this Cricinfo article (http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-england-2013/content/current/story/626938.html) says Prior has been promoted to the vice-captaincy of the Test team. This presumably doesn't affect Broad's vice-captaincy of the ODI team, since Prior doesn't play ODIs for whatever reason. This should be reflected on the wiki page. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.63.157 (talk) 14:08, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

From what I've read, the vice-captaincy of the Test is being chosen on a series-by-series basis, with no official appointment. So whilst Prior was VC during the NZ, he isn't *the* vice-captain. m@tt (talk) 12:04, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I agree with m@tt, there is no permanent vice-captain, it varies from series to series. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:59, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Personnel

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The list of players is too long. Some of the players on the list haven't been involved for over six months. I think a year is too long as players who will not play again are still on the list. Why not have a list of players who have been called up recently as this would reflect the current situation. Englandcricketteam (talk) 20:44, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Totally agree, I think the only people on the list should be those with central or incremental contracts, or those who have played since the start of the 2014 English Summer (Sri Lankan cricket team in England in 2014).
I believe that this would remove Carberry, Bairstow, Borthwick, Wright, Dernbach, Parry & Briggs, none of whom I can see playing for England anytime soon. However, it keeps Robson, who may play in Test matches for England this year. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Bristol & Test Matches

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The International Grounds section says that Bristol will host a test match in 2017, but no citation is given. The same claim is made on the Bristol page without citation. This reference [1] says they are only hosting ODIs. Can I therefore this reference to be correct, and the Wikipedia articles to be wrong/outdated?

I wanted to check before deleting this claim.

Joseph2302 (talk) 15:57, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

  1. ^ "Major Match Awards 2017-19". Retrieved 6 January 2015.

T20 Bowling Records

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The T20 bowling records are ridiculous, because they include players who've bowled only 1 or 2 overs in T20 Internationals. I propose it should be updated to only include players who have bowled at least 50 balls in International T20s.

Here are the current results: Most wickets: 65 – Stuart Broad Best average: 8.66 – Darren Maddy Best bowling: 4/10 – Ravi Bopara v West Indies at The Oval in 2011 Best strike rate: 6.0 – Darren Maddy and Joe Denly Best economy rate: 3.75 – Scott Borthwick

With my proposal, the results would be: Most wickets: 65 – Stuart Broad Best average: 16.84 - Graeme swann Best bowling: 4/10 – Ravi Bopara v West Indies at The Oval in 2011 Best strike rate: 13.5 - Joe Root Best economy rate: 6.36- Graeme Swann — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph2302 (talk • contribs) 19:37, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Coaching records

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Do you have a source for this? I can see that you may want to show win % for the head coach, but there is no way it is needed for the fielding coach.

Can't remember if it was me who asked the above, but I can't find a source for these figures, and it is WP:OR. I am going to remove them and leave it as a list of coaching staff. Spike 'em (talk) 10:45, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Shirt Numbers

Latest comment: 7 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Noticed that some players who have never played ODIS or been included in a squad apparently have a shirt number. How is this the case? Englandcricketteam (talk) 17:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Players are given a squad number when they join the England Lions and most seem to keep it when they first join the ODI squad. Keaton Jennings' number is the same as on that page, so I assume someone has copied it over. Tom Curran was in the last ODI squad, and his number was listed on the team-sheet (as 12th man) here Spike 'em (talk) 18:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Ah, ok. Do you think Curran should stay in the squad list even though he didn't play? If you think he should stay, Toby Roland-Jones was included in a Test squad last summer, so should he be added to the list (in italics)? Englandcricketteam (talk) 17:02, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
My feeling is that he should stay on the list until the next ODI squad is announced. If he isn't included then remove him. There have been other Test squads since TRJ was called up, hence I wouldn't keep him on the list at the moment.Spike 'em (talk) 21:21, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Article title

Latest comment: 6 years ago8 comments3 people in discussion

Shouldn't this be called England national cricket team for compliance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) and all other team article titles? Protea caffra (talk) 15:59, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

The teams represents both England and Wales, not a single nation. Same rationale holds for Ireland and West Indies cricket teams.Spike 'em (talk) 16:33, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
And this has all been discussed above.Spike 'em (talk)_
Okay, thanks. Should call themselves "England and Wales", then, or "Great Britain" as Scottish players have represented them, but that's out of scope here. "Ireland" and "West Indies" are geographically correct but "England" is not. Protea caffra (talk) 06:02, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Protea caffra. Seems to me that England should be treated as a historical exception to the rule. There's more to it than geography or politics. I think "England cricket team" is the simple solution. I've seen your comments elsewhere about provincial team names and you are on the right track there. I found three South African team names that had slipped the net so I've just updated them. Hope that helps. LXV (talk) 06:35, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Okay, thanks to you too. I guess anything to do with England must be complex. Look also at all the South African players who played for them, not forgetting other nationalities. Maybe they should be called the "Rest of the World cricket team"? Protea caffra (talk) 06:44, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Ha, good one. Looks like we should hire some Kiwis too. LXV (talk) 06:46, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Are you not counting Ben Stokes?
It is the England and Wales Cricket Board, but the team has always historically been called England, so by WP:UCRN that is what we call the article. Scotland was part the TCCB, the organisation that preceded the (confusingly abbreviated) ECB, but they went their own way about 20 years ago. Incidentally, I'd just ditch the "national" part of all names, but that would require a greater discussion at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) Spike 'em (talk) 08:20, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
It seems we need to crack open the mashed bananas, this is really fucked up! Spike 'em (talk) 10:06, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
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