Talk:English language in Europe

Malta, Cyprus, etc.

I tinkered with the opening paragraph so to emphasize the degree to which the UK and Ireland are English-speaking compared to Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus. I think the sections on Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus are interesting and I like seeing them in this article, but I wanted to eliminate the impression that English is spoken on the streets of Valletta or Nicosia to the same degree that its spoken in London or Inverness. I also added a few lines about the Crown Dependencies since they were named in the opening but were not added again. -- House of Scandal 01:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Grammar

To be grammatically correct, shouldn't this be entitled "English-speaking Europe". "English speaking Europe" means "English people speaking a language called Europe". Deb 11:51, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think you're right - it should be moved to English-speaking Europe. --Nought 12:11, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Isn't the Wales section a bit NPOV regarding "subjugation" etc.

Ireland

The Ireland section badly needs revision. No citiations are given for the assertions made and the section most certainly does not have a neutral POV. 95.83.238.39 (talk) 14:24, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Can Ireland be called a British colony? It was an indepedent state under the British monarch, then an integral part of the United Kingdom, and finally after that indepednet- Never officially a colony. --24.147.128.141 18:04, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The article does not mention that English is spoken almost everywhere in Europe, so for example I see myself as an English-speaking European, though I am not form the UK, Malta, Cyprus or Gibraltar. [anonymous]

But are you a native-speaker? That's the point. Learning someone else's language, however well you think you speak it, is different to being a native-speaker of it. Pleidhce (talk) 18:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I see this article as an effort to prove that Europe is English-speaking. Not in fact. Just check how many countries speak German (Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Luxembourg and still spoken in some countries of Eastern Europe) or French (France, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg).

On the other hand Cyprus is rather Greek, than English-speaking.

Anyway that's just my opinion. Atlasz 13:35, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Action Item: The Ireland section needs to be renamed to "United kingdom" and the top map needs a better representation. The map for example, does not show that English is a native tongue to the whole of the United Kingdom and just ignores it.12.227.66.34 (talk) 18:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Ireland is not United Kingdom. The map should be replaced by one that matches the article title, English in Europe (not English in the EU). Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 20:11, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Purpose?

The term "English-speaking Europe" is not a common one, and is subject to various interpretations as seen abov e. It could also include the increasing use of English all over Europe.

Much of this article consists of non-linguistic history which is covered better in other articles and doesn't need to be duplicated.

Even the linguistic discussion lacks detail and statistics. For example, the greatest retreat of Irish and Welsh in the face of English was during the 19th century, but you would not know this, or its relation to the Industrial Revolution, from this article.

This article lacks many aspects. It counts Cyprus a part of english-speaking europe, but is not longer official language there nor more english-speaking than e.g. the Netherlands. I think the people in the Netherlands and Northern Europe are more capable in English than the Cypriots.

Seconded. (85.211.174.31 16:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC))

Thirded. —Wiki Wikardo 06:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Union Jack or...?

How about the "Cross of St George" (rather than the Union Flag) to denote the English language? Doesn't it annoy you to see the USA flag on guide books/websites etc to denote "English", you'd think they'd invented the language or something! -- Annonymous

Is there no flag (other than the Union Jack) for the English language.--Alan Frize 11:45, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

English language flag

See also commons:Category:Flags of languages. Edward 20:37, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate your annoyance at seeing the Stars and Stripes rather than the Union Jack to indicate the English language on websites.

The St. George is a creative and logical suggestion since the language is called English rather than British. But it's not a practical solution.

The St. George isn't well-recognized by many outside the UK and some Commonwealth countries except by Anglophiles, vexillologists and the especially learned.

Also, even moreso than the Union Jack, the St. George has some sectatarian connotations that Irish people (including the Irish diaspora, hence a huge amount of people) aren't fond of.

I think the Union Jack is the best choice. But when you do see the Stars and Stripes, remember that often it wasn't an American that put it there. It many parts of the world, the uneducated call all English-speakers (or even all white people, whether they speak English or not!) "Americans" in the same way a British boor might regard all Asians as Chinese or an American lout might regard all latinos as Mexicans (if on the West Coast), Cubans (if from Florida) or Puerto Ricans (if from NYC).

People are always going to have flawed notions (reading Wipiedia proves this!) When I go to a website from Thailand or Brazil or whatever, I am just happy when a link to (readable) English version exists. House of Scandal 16:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

What extraordinary nonsense.The absurd US/British flag is a monstrosity.The Americans speak English not American-the famous differences amount to a few dozen words. I have never heard anyone in the world ever speak of talking the "American" language However after WW2 when I visited Paris as a young boy it was true that with the image of America being so strong rich and exciting etc that many young Frenchmen spoke English with an American accent -as indeed did many British popular entertainers. All that has vanished.Nowhere in the world do people speak English with an American accent and the idea that lower class people regard all white people as Americans is quite wrong-they may well regard them as English-even if they are Australian or irish etc but never American.This probably reflects the change in critical attitudes towards America.Certainly whenever a European or indeed anyone who is non American appears on radio or TV speaking with an American accent ,one immediately says subconsciously -CIA Regarding Gibraltar-When I visited with my wife a frew years ago I was interested to see if they spoke English When we arrived schools had just finished and many clusters of teenagers were standing in the main square talking.We listened in to several of these groups and to my surprise never heard a word of English -only Spanish Incidentally every where in the world people use the unionjack as a symbol of "English spoken"with one exception-France -here the symbol is the stars and stripes!!-The French inferiority complex regarding peridious Albion remains strong!!89.132.130.90 (talk) 15:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd say that since English originated in areas that are now under the Union Jack then just stick to the Union Jack. If you start grafting the US flag in then why just the US flag? What about the flags of all the other English speaking countries! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.7.84 (talk) 11:50, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Malta POV

The paragraph adapted from Geoffrey Hull's The Malta language question: a case history in cultural imperialism is highly POV - The British tried vainly to usurp the Italian language from the Maltese. I know Hull's writings from his work with Tetum and other languages in East Timor, but the paragraph was far too nationalistic, getting into what the British should and shouldn't have done. Quiensabe 19:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

English knowledge in Italy and Spain

Hello, I am an italian living in spain and I can assure you that it is pretty difficult for me to agree that 20%-29% of spanish and italian population could speak english...I don't know how much reliable may be these surveys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.179.120.4 (talk) 10:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Remember that many old people can't speak english, and Italy has a high rate of old people, if I'm not mistaking. Not saying that you are wrong; would just like to point this out. 82.211.210.29 (talk) 03:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to add that the numbers for Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany and France seem very reasonable to me, from what I have experienced in those countries. I'm Norwegian myself, where the knowledge of English probably is like in Sweden, ie. very good. Sometimes I feel that the whole Norwegian language is slowly turning into English. Young people tend to use a lot of English words and terms when they talk. My younger sister told me the kids at her school call the H1N1 virus "swine flu", with the English pronunciation, rather than the Norwegian equivalent "svineinfluensa". Looking through my Facebook news feed, a fair share of wall posts and comments (especially short ones) are in English, even between Norwegians. I have reasons to believe that the same thing is happening in several other European countries. 75.80.168.77 (talk) 06:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

EU not Europe

The title seems not to match the article. It seems to be about English in the EU rather than Europe (which isn't all the EU). 121.73.7.84 (talk) 11:46, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

That's true... The article even mentions the high percentage of a few countries outside the EU, but doesn't tell us what they are, so the contributors might have been somewhat aware. This needs to be changed. 99.242.122.19 (talk) 19:11, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

The Netherlands

English also has an official status in The Netherlands, not only in the Caribbean municipalities of Sint Eustatius and Saba [1] but also in the European municipality of Amsterdam. [2] [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by PPP (talk • contribs) 16:04, 19 January 2014 (UTC) And when I noticed my mistake and wanted to correct my mistake of not signing, I see a robot beat me to it... Thanks, SineBot! ;) PPP (talk) 16:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Lingua Franca

This section of the article should address the problems that are arising from the use of English as lingua franca in EU institutions (i.e by many unsufficiently qualified speakers), as broached in the following article and paper: [4], [5] --chris 論 08:46, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

English Language of Commonwealth of Nations de facto?

Does it use British English/British English OED? 124.106.137.149 (talk) 21:51, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

https://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/archives/ebs/ebs_243_en.pdf "Which languages do you speak well enough in order to be able to have a conversation, excluding your mother tongue?" This is the basis for the green graph/statistic shown on the Wikipedia page. This is absurd and needs to be removed: It's based on self-evaluation, and not on an actual English proficiency test, and the question is worded in a way that it doesn't define what a "having a conversation" really means, it can mean anything between basic hello how are you, and a political discussion, and people in countries with low English proficiency will tend to interpret it more in accordance with "hello-how-are-you". At the very least the caption needs to be changed and the question that it is based upon needs to be cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.190.113.234 (talk) 01:23, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Isle of Man: "English and Manx Gaelic are the two official languages"? Needs reputable source.

Article Isle of Man: "The official language of the Isle of Man is English." Article Manx language: "Manx is not officially recognised by any national or regional government" Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 01:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Add A Fact: "English becomes official language in Ukraine"

I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

President Volodymyr Zelensky signed a law on June 26 establishing English as an official language of international communication in Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian parliament's website.

The fact comes from the following source:

https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-signs-law-on-use-of-english-in-ukraine/

Here is a wikitext snippet to use as a reference:

 {{Cite web |title=Zelensky signs law on use of English in Ukraine |url=https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-signs-law-on-use-of-english-in-ukraine/ |website=The Kyiv Independent |date=2024-06-26 |access-date=2024-08-10 |language=en |quote=President Volodymyr Zelensky signed a law on June 26 establishing English as an official language of international communication in Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian parliament's website.}} 

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Ата ^(talk) 12:40, 10 August 2024 (UTC)