Talk:Enjo kōsai

USA

I don't think this is anything new in the USA - it has gone on for a long time and probably goes on in most countries

Agreed, but there seems to a fascination with Japan which ensures even the most banal parts of it's culture are endlessly documented on Wikipedia... -Barryvalder 02:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Not trying to be too much of a comedian here, but we have this in America, and it's called marriage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cssaunders (talk • contribs) 06:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Doubtfully is this issue a "banal" concept posted on Wikipedia because of Japophiles. It's a huge issue in Japan and does not exist in America in the same way. There are explicit systems in that country set up for this process to function including marketing and conscious cooperation from companies and individuals seeking to profit off of the act. -75.217.60.119 (talk) 11:49, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

What about sugaring? (related to sugar baby and sugar daddy) --Appleuseryu (talk) 16:47, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Macrons

The use of macrons is inconsistent in this article. My dictionary lists kousai as the correct form, so presumably there should be a macron in every instance of the word.

Name Spelling

Enjo Kousai is the best form, although enjo kōsai and enjo koosai are both technically correct. It depends on the romajii system being used. Enjo kosai, as it is now, is simply incorrect. Hopefully, the article will take the kousai title after the merger. (Unidentified)

See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles WhisperToMe 03:17, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Just to be clear- koosai would never be an acceptable romanization of this article, as "oo" romaji never refers to the dipthong "ou," but instead always refers to the extended "oo." I should have realized writing a lecture on proper romaji usage to someone who spelled "romaji" wrong though might be a waste of time.75.217.60.119 (talk) 11:42, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

There appears to be inconsistency between enjo kōsai without hyphenation, and enjo-kōsai with hyphenation. To remain encyclopedic, this should be standardized even if both are acceptable. The one variant should take precedence within the article, with a notation in the introductory sentence of the other's acceptance.
Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 08:36, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Japanese Link

I'm assuming the Japanese link to a page other than 援助交際 (Enjo kosai) was a mistake, which I corrected. If I was wrong, please revert (but I hope you'll explain why). --Feitclub 03:33, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Sugar Daddy

Why change back to remove a reference to the Western concept of Sugar daddy?

Mobile phones

I see two things wrong with this, so I removed it:

In Japan in 2000, there were an estimated 63.8 million mobile phones users.[1] The Japan Internet Association, a non-governmental organisation, reported that around one in three Japanese high school girls owns a mobile phone that can access the internet.

First, whats the relevance to the prevalence of mobile phones in Japanese high schools? Second, I highly doubt than only 1/3 high school girls own mobile phones. Something like 90% would be a bit more believable. Maybe the report alluded to (but not cited) is more than 10 years old, but I can not imagine japanese high schools with less than 80% prevalence of mobile phones in last several years. Shinhan 12:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Coming-of-age ritual

I didn't see how the text "Others, especially within the Japanese academic establishment, see enjo kōsai as a coming-of-age ritual that has naturally developed in Japan's contemporary capitalist society." was relevant (I actually think it's sort of dangerous, philosophically wise), so I placed it under comments. -Guille ^.~ 01:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

This talks about the same phenomena seen in the examples of the "Age disparity in sexual relationships" article.2_of_8 (talk) 16:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

You should add merge templates if you want people to comment. 70.55.85.177 (talk) 08:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought I did... anyways, It's always difficult to get somebody to agree to merge an article on a Japanese phenomenon. I always get responses saying that the Japanese translation of an English word talks about something much too different and unique. Gah. 2_of_8 (talk) 19:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

• I would be opposed to the merger. There are several articles extant that are linked to from your proposed merge target. This would just be another related article, as there are several already. This article is also many many times larger than the target, so it would in effect, turn that article into an enjo kosai article, instead of an overview or generalist article. 70.55.85.177 (talk) 08:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's a uniquely Japanese phenomenon that covers more than just Age Disparity, but other things such socio-economic issues as well as legal prostitution. BillyTFried (talk) 00:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Link to WaiWai column

The link under "bibliography" was a link to the now removed WaiWai Column on the Mainichi daily news. The link is dead, and the articles have been removed with an appology by the newspaper, as they were not known to be well sourced or even fact checked. Either way the link was 404, and not reliable enough to be source material. Mainichi's apology for their WaiWai Column : http://mdn.mainichi.jp/20080720/0628.html Confirming the linked article came from WaiWai : http://www.theage.com.au/world/japanese-set-the-blogs-on-sleazy-australian-writer-20080704-31w7.html?page=-1 131.107.0.75 (talk) 20:38, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Age of consent in Japan

"The law made the [nation-wide?] legal age limit 18 for consenting sexual activities..."

This sentence apparently contradicts the article on Ages of consent in Asia, which says that the "national age of consent in Japan is 13" but "prefectures can have local ordinances that prohibit sexual activities with any minor under 18." Maybe the person who wrote the above statement was thinking of a specific prefecture, but in any case they neglected to add a supporting source. --Keith111 (talk) 10:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Or perhaps "consenting prostitution activities" was intended instead of "consenting sexual activities." --Keith111 (talk) 10:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The statement is correct. The 1999 law was not prefectural. The article of consent in Asia is outdated by at least ten years. You could have just read the law and found that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.217.60.119 (talk) 11:35, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not sources, but their sources sure are. And the source cited for 13 [2] certainly seems legit (Interpol) and clear, and cites the law from 1999 with 13 as the age of consent. I'm sure everyone's willing to entertain the possibility of the Interpol site being outdated after 3+ years, but if you can provide a source for 18, that'd be awesome and would no doubt improve the AoC article, too. 88.113.226.197 (talk) 07:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Escorting

Couldn't a comparison be made with escorting in the west? They seem to be essentially the same thing, albeit with Enjo Kosai being less "professional".--94.196.129.125 (talk) 19:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

No, because escorting is prostitution. Or do you think that there are American "escorts" who draw the line at "dinner and a movie" and yet are still employed? You must be kidding. Not sure why people are so fixated on finding a way to make this very odd specific wrinkle on prostitution into some sort of universal "it happens everywhere" thing, when it does not. Grown men paying young girls to hang out with them in such huge numbers that >20%< of high school girls do it *is* a strange thing that *isn't* "happening everywhere". It uniquely originated in Japan and has spread a bit to her neighbors. Forcing analogies that don't fit, IMO, badly detracts from the core issue and crosses into original research. IMO *only* direct parallels to this practice in other countries should be referenced here and not "well, isn't this just like marriage! har har" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.15.43.26 (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Hah, this is not so easy to answer methinks. Some escort services in the so-called "West" (plus, here in Europe where I live) have very strict rules like "no sexual contacts". And, of course, some of the women prefer that type of escort services because they do not want to have sexual intercourse with total strangers, not even for lots of money ("Out of the question, I'm no prostitute!" I heard an escort woman say once). -andy 2.243.85.234 (talk) 16:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

POV Dispute

Tagged April 22, 2013 by Presentime for a POV dispute in the section "Perceptions in Japanese society" but no accompanying entry made here. What, exactly, is disputed in that section? Eggishorn (talk) 11:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

As there has been no discussion or explanation for the placement of the tag for 5 years, I'm removing the tag. --John B123 (talk) 19:17, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Enjo kōsai. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090318065813/http://www.lexisnexis.com:80/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2500913662&format=GNBFI&sort=BOOLEAN&startDocNo=1&resultsUrlKey=29_T2500913673&cisb=22_T2500913672&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=145202&docNo=1 to http://www.lexisnexis.com/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2500913662&format=GNBFI&sort=BOOLEAN&startDocNo=1&resultsUrlKey=29_T2500913673&cisb=22_T2500913672&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=145202&docNo=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 01:07, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Enjo kōsai. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090311154018/http://www.thestandard.com.hk:80/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=55133&sid=15810773&con_type=1&d_str=20071015&sear_year=2007 to http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=55133&sid=15810773&con_type=1&d_str=20071015&sear_year=2007
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090311154038/http://www.thestandard.com.hk:80/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=67897&sid=19575157&con_type=1&d_str=20080630&sear_year=2008 to http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=67897&sid=19575157&con_type=1&d_str=20080630&sear_year=2008

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:46, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Enjo kōsai. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20130408015918/http://www.cultofpop.com/wingsofmyheart/version10/?p=282 to http://www.cultofpop.com/wingsofmyheart/version10/?p=282

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:42, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Enjo kōsai. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303175522/http://www.dawncenter.or.jp/english/publication/edawn/9911/mean.html to http://www.dawncenter.or.jp/english/publication/edawn/9911/mean.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:46, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

LOL

In the US, people insist on selling sexually themed music, films, clothing to teenagers, and providing them with sex ed, condoms and abortion. "They are teenagers, it's perfectly normal for them to have sex" they say. But an older man is willing to pay a girl to go and do karaoke? Huge problem. So fumbling around in the back seat of a car with some totally clueless 17 year old football player is totally cool, dinner with a 40yo lawyer for money, not cool. Meanwhile, the feminists are claiming that a young girl using her looks and her body to get older men to pay her cash and goods for her company is somehow "empowering to females"? I thought not that long ago prostitution itself was a symbol of the patriarchy, women being forced to degrade themeselves to men because they couldn't make a living any other way and the men owned all the wealth. I wish they'd just make up their minds. AnnaGoFast (talk) 02:03, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Dohan

Is this the same as or related to dohan?

https://japantoday.com/category/features/opinions/the-rules-of-hostessing

Maikel (talk) 22:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Let's see:

All mama-sans running the clubs strongly encourage "dohan," in which you meet the customer (called a “guest” in club lingo) for dinner and accompany them to the club after dinner. Dohans usually cost the customer 20,000 yen to 30,000 yen but this includes two hours at the club. For loyal and repeat customers, the mama-san usually doesn’t watch the time strictly and the guest knows the rules of the club, so the mama-san doesn’t have to ask him to leave. However, for new customers who don’t ever seem to want to leave, the mama-san will drop the bill off and give him a look, indirectly asking him to leave.

Sounds similar. Hostessing in general seems related, kind of like 'group escorting' rather than individually. Olivia comet (talk) 21:08, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

November 2022

I wrote a follow-up on the UN Special Rapporteur's claim that 13% of Japanese minors are involved in enjo kosai. The Special Rapporteur's estimate that 13% of Japanese minors are involved in enjo kosai has created quite a stir in Japanese society, with most of the Japanese reaction being that the estimate was clearly unfounded and exaggerated. Of course the Japanese government immediately protested to the Special Rapporteur, who retracted her estimate. It is a serious mistake that this unfounded estimate of 13% is still being written as fact all over the web.--SLIMHANNYA (talk) 14:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

By the way, the UN Special Rapporteur initially announced that 30% of Japanese minors were prostituted. It was really ridiculous.--SLIMHANNYA (talk) 15:12, 23 November 2022 (UTC)