Talk:Enumclaw horse sex case

Name of Stallion

The stallion's name is shown at the start of the Mr. Hands infamous video clip to be "josh hopkins" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.29.196 (talk) 20:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I thought the horse's name is Bullseye. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.80.245 (talk) 03:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

- nope — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.13.6.186 (talk) 09:06, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

This article cites the horse's name as "Big Dick". 99.245.108.251 (talk) 21:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Mr Hands Clip

- I believe a section addressing the mr hands video's circulation around the internet amongst certain crowds (the main reason why this article would be of interest, i think) would be benificial to this article. I've also seen various posts by someone claiming to be mr hands on a bestiality forum, will look into this as well. this entry is much better than the other mr hands article. He died doing what he loved.

also, a clarification is needed seperating the video being filmed when mr pinyan was injured and the video circulating online.

There used to be a link to the clip, but it got deleted. I propose it gets put back in.

No. It adds nothing to the article; while Wikipedia is not censored, this doesn't override the fact that the link isn't useful here. Zetawoof^(ζ) 07:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Beyond it not being the fatal incident (I haven't watched the clip but I assume that to be so) and thus not really relevant, the content is not suitable for wikipedia. One simple reason being that it is illegal in many countries and I personally do not believe illegal content should be put on wikipedia. BabyNuke 12:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

"I personally do not believe illegal content should be put on wikipedia" - makes me glad your opinion doesn't matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.78.69.127 (talk) 05:31, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

I'm not clear on how a dead freak is "notable." Momentary mention in the news for being stupid is hardly the stuff of encyclopedias. What about the guy born with two penises? The man with an extra arm? The guy who smoked 110 cigarettes at once? There's nothing here that can't be found with one read of a google page. I propose deletion.Mzmadmike (talk) 00:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

It's notable for being the single most read newspaper article in the Seattle Times' history, resulting in a change in state legislation, and having a film shot about it which featured at the 2007 Sundance and Cannes film festival. That's a whole lot more notable than the 110 cigarettes guy. BabyNuke (talk) 15:20, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Mr. Hands is not this guy

Let me explain. When this guy died, there was alot of news coverage. On alot of site's, people were wondering if this was real, So a famous video called Mr. Hands was posted to show that it is possible. However, because video's showing anal penetration with a horsepenis on a man are so rare, people naturally thought the guy in the Mr. hands video was the same as this man who died because of it. I know this to be false, however, because i have had the video years before this came into the news. While it is possible the video was earlier footage of this guy, there is no evidence for that. I belie ve the Mr. hands references should be removed.

Added a note. BabyNuke 12:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, that is him. However, I don't have any reliable sources which I can cite. (Honestly, I don't even know what one would look like.) Zetawoof^(ζ) 20:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough - I can't be bothered to go find the video and compare it with the photo from his yahoo profile to figure out if it's him so I'll take your word for it. You're probably as reliable a source as it gets in this case. BabyNuke 21:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Yahoo profile is a rather reasonable source for linking "Mr. Hands" and Mr. Pinyan. In particular, the profile gives his real name as "KP", which matches. Zetawoof^(ζ) 22:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Having seen the Mr. Hands video, I think it has to be him. No human could survive the full penetration that the man in that video received from that horse. If you notice,in the beginning of the video the "assistant" is holding the horse's genitals back to keep him from fully penetrating the victim. This is because having a horse go that deep and actually reaching orgasm = perforated colon. It is indeed the video of the incident. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.74.170.156 (talk) 00:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

Old usenet postings of his also links "mrhands" and "Kenneth Pinyan". They are one and the same. Evan1975 20:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Even if they are the same, its not the video of the incident, because the video has been circulating on the internet for years now, long before the incident.

Not to mention that the police confiscated everything they found at the crimescene, including the video showing the actual accident. And the police never released any of the material. Omegastar19 (talk) 04:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The "Mr. Hands" thing should be noted in the article, for multiple reasons:

• the Mr. Hands page links here
• this is what immediately turns up when you search on Google
• multiple sources online connect the two
• people are coming to this page and are confused when "Mr. Hands" is not mentioned
• even if he were not Mr. Hands (which all evidence says he is), he is popularly believed to be and that is worth a mention

To suggest KP is not Mr. Hands is completely and utterly recockulary. Wikipedia does not and should not need a time-stamped HD film of a previously-alive man holding a notarized certificate saying "I was Mr. Hands" to put relevant information here.TricksterWolf (talk) 23:08, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

This news article serves as further evidence that Mr. Hands refers to Kenneth Pinyan, with the horse in question referred to as "Big Dick". 99.245.108.251 (talk) 21:29, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Who performed on whom

I find the information on who was the active part in the sexual activities quite crucial, yet it is not to be found. I suspect some kind of anal intercourse, but this is not specified. Could more knowledgable people than me please add this information? 62.131.79.6 18:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The horse fucked him in the ass. --SPUI (T - C) 05:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

That's gotta hurt!!!

Most likely, yeah. That's Enumclaw for ya. At least Catherine the Great had the good sense not to try anal penetration with a horse. Still killed her, but bleeding to death from an anal injury? I thought that shit only happened in the movie Caligula. Wandering Star 00:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Do note that there's no evidence that she ever did anything with horses. Given that she died at the age of 67, anyway, it seems unlikely that she'd be engaging in hijinks in the stable anyway. Zetawoof^(ζ) 00:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

My favorite part of the article is this little gem: "...he was considered very experienced at receiving anal sex from stallions...." Priceless. Well, now, I think I'll chalk this up to one of the things NOT to try...wait a minute, I already decided that BEFORE reading this article. :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.57.52.253 (talk • contribs).

Probably a safe decision, yes. Zetawoof^(ζ) 06:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I in addition demand more details of this anal adventure, specifically how would one coax a horse into mounting a human? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1010:B014:1DFD:517A:DCA6:7A72:C162 (talk) 11:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Google it. WP is not a how-to site.TricksterWolf (talk) 23:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Template removal

I left this comment:

You added the template for deletion to this article, but there are some problems with it. First, you didn't actually do anything beyond add the template. Second, you haven't discussed or explained why it would not be considered a valid article. I myself can't see a reason.

Not being sure what you want to do, I've deleted the template, and if there's a discussion you want to have about the article, may I suggest its talk page would be a good frist stop? Many thanks -- FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 00:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

on User talk:75.7.152.96. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 00:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Why is Enumclaw in See also????

Any content on that page which refers to this incident has been removed... either that article should have that content replaced or it should be removed from the See also section on this one, although to be honest I find it confusing that Enumclaw is mentioned at all, since I can't find any information on Wikipedia to link Enumclaw to this article... Sk8a H8a 03:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Because that's where it happened. For some reason, there's been an effort to remove mentions of this from the relevant articles. I've readded an explanation to both articles. Zetawoof^(ζ) 07:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

There was an external link to the Seattle Times article in the Enumclaw article; I think that was sufficient. However, if the consensus is to include a cite, that's fine, as long as it's factual. Some previous cites have been overly inflammatory and not true. --Jslik 05:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Moving?

Didn't Pinyan move to Washington State specifically because there was no law there against sex with horses? DS 14:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but I think it's more likely that he lived where he did because of his job at Boeing. I see no evidence for him living there for legal reasons. BabyNuke 15:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't the Mr. Hands video in the Zoo film?

It might be the real deal then.

I'm not sure how that follows. As was mentioned earlier, the video you're probably thinking of was recorded and available online well before the incident. Zetawoof_(ζ) 19:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Why wasn't the horse brought up on charges? He gets to have all the fun and no punishment? Damn liberals.

I admit, I laughed. Raul654 (talk) 17:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

You will be glad to know the horse was gelded/castrated very shortly afterward, so he wont be getting up to any more mischief. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.23.91 (talk) 07:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

So then what about that video? Was it an earlier one? It seems the same thing happened. How did he not die?

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Pinyan or Pinyun?

Article says both, and normally this would not be an issue were it not for the fact that quotations in the article use both spellings... Kakurokuna (talk) 21:03, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

King County Sheriff press releases

http://web.archive.org/web/20050831155240/http://metrokc.gov:80/sheriff/news/ listed a possible press release:

• "July 14, 2005 South County Death Prompts Sheriff's Office Investigation of Animal Issues"

But the page itself was never archived. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

number of WA state senators

article says "with all 36 state senators voting for it". There are 49 senators. I looked up the bill on the WA legislative website. The vote was "passed; yeas, 36; nays, 0; absent, 0; excused, 13", so 13 senators were very scarce at the time of this vote. Will edit to say the vote was unanimous among those who cast a vote.

dude — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.34.138.191 (talk) 17:02, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Cite error

There are notes on the article but no notes list, which is causing a cite error at the end of the article. The following should be added above the ==References== section:

==Notes==
{{notelist}}

Thanks 89.241.33.89 (talk) 19:15, 10 October 2021 (UTC) Now I have to go clean my eyeballs

 Done --Ferien (talk) 20:25, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Typo

In the subsection titled "Section 16.52.205 of the Revised Code of Washington," there's a sentence that reads (in part), "bestiality had little political support in the Washington." I assume this is instead intended to read, "bestiality had little political support in Washington." Someone should change it - I can't because I don't have an account. --2603:7000:4E40:9E00:845E:2B7:FFE:EA16 (talk) 03:09, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thanks, A09090091 (talk) 19:35, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Relevance of Boeing

How relevant is Boeing to the case? I think that detail needs more context. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that detail to be removed and I do not work for Boeing. I want more mentions of Boeing in the article. This is not reverse psychology, and I have no mutual interests with Boeing. BlueBanana (talk) 08:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree that it is strange, mostly because I just wouldn't expect a Boeing engineer to get voluntarily humped to death by a horse, and also because there's no way to frame this story so as to be NOT strange. I also agree that it's not highly relevant.

However, I would argue that it's in keeping with news stories centered on individuals, where simple demographic info like age and career are often included to give some context for the incident. Granted, it's not the job of Wikipedia to humanize or flesh out a guy who died shagging a horse, but since the original sources tend to include this information, it makes sense for Wikipedia to follow suit unless otherwise warranted.

Granted, , but since the original sources tend to do it, it makes sense for Wikipedia to retain this

I vote that we keep it simply because it's interesting, harmless, and does not distract from the overall focus of the page. And really, how could ANYTHING distract from that? 2603:7081:1603:A300:206A:BF81:3988:D64C (talk) 21:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2023

I think it would be an important addition to add the popular youtuber "jschlatt" under the references or media section of the page, especially as that part was already there once before. 161.97.198.153 (talk) 03:23, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 05:01, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Michael Hanley Horse Video

On November 2023, a video of a man with a blurred face bending over and receiving anal sex from a horse in a stable has gone viral on X.com. It's being regarded as the Mr. Hands 2023. Gengeros (talk) 08:39, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Clarity in lead

"Pinyan and Tait filmed and distributed zoophilic pornography of Pinyan receiving anal sex from a stallion under the alias "Mr. Hands"."

This might make it sound like the stallions name was "Mr. Hands", although I'm not sure how to rewrite it. Dialmayo (talk) (Contribs) she/her 02:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect Mention of Douglas Spink

Currently, the article about the Enumclaw incident suggests Douglas Spink was involved as a truck driver, but the sources it cites to support that claim do not mention Spink at all:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070202031601/http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1583009,00.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20150824013827/https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/videotapes-show-bestiality-enumclaw-police-say/

The details of the Enumclaw incident are well documented, and Douglas Spink is not mentioned in any verified accounts of the incident. Suffice it to say, Douglas Spink was not involved in the Enumclaw incident, and certainly not as the driver who left Kenneth Pinyan at the hospital. It would be difficult for Spink to be involved in the July incident, as he was arrested for drug smuggling in February of that year. References to Douglas Spink's involvement should be removed.

https://www.nydailynews.com/2010/04/19/coke-kingpin-douglas-spink-busted-for-running-bestiality-farm-in-washington-state/ AmenableOtter (talk) 07:06, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Clop should be removed from See Also

Pornographic fan art of cartoon characters has no connection to this real-life case of bestiality beyond the fact that said cartoon characters happen to be horses (to be clear, they are talking horses that engage in anthropomorphic behaviors and have their own civilized society, and are heavily stylized to the point that they bear little resemblance to the real-life animal they are based on). The show My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and the "Brony" subculture surrounding it did not even exist at the time of the incident. It's not relevant. 2600:1700:3590:A8D0:89D6:AA6F:F4E:E7 (talk) 11:33, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Dubious Sourcing

Can we get anything better than sensationalist articles? These citations are circular. Records are publicly available; why has no one ever been able to find them? Cryend (talk) 01:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Mr. Hands video

The Mr. Hands video isn't called Mr. Hands or 2 Guys 1 Horse, it's called DEEP THRUSTS. The video has a title opening that says the following: "Zeta Mo' Betta Productions Presents: "DEEP THRUSTS" Starring Mr. Hands And Super Stud the Wonder Horse". And it is not the video that lead to Kenneth Pinyan's death. Pinyan had been doing this for years and this was just one of his many times he has had sex with horses and had it filmed. In the DVD commentary of the 2007 film Zoo, Robinson Devor said that zoos in that group told him that the video in question had been filmed 5 years prior, so we are talking about either 2000-2001 or 2002-2003. The horse in the video is nicknamed "Super Stud the Wonder Horse" and not "Big Dick". The video showing the incident that lead to Kenneth Pinyan's death is probably still stored in the Enumclaw or King County Police Department evidence storage. https://chud.com/10022/exclusive-interview-robinson-devor-zoo/ Gengeros (talk) 14:28, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

There are no reliable sources for the death, which is quite odd, considering that would be available Cryend (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)