Talk:Epsilon zero

Requested move 11 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus has formed that Epsilon number is not the proper title for the disambiguation page. However, no consensus has formed for an appropriate title. Mathnerd314159's proposal to merge this dab into Epsilon (disambiguation) has not yet garnered consensus, so per WP:NOGOODOPTIONS, this closer has decided to move the dab as proposed for now. As for Epsilon numbers (mathematics), WP:RMCI states to only move related pages. However, this close precludes neither a RM for the mathematics page, nor a merger proposal (or even a merge subject to WP:BRD) for the dabs. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:55, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

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Epsilon number → Epsilon zero – Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epsilon number, there is no source that uses the term epsilon number for anything except Epsilon numbers (mathematics), but vacuum permittivity and the first epsilon number are both called epsilon zero. Epsilon numbers (mathematics) will be moved to this title if this page is moved. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:29, 11 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 05:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 04:24, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:PLURAL I think the math article's title should be "epsilon numbers" plural because it's a class.

IMO the situation would be better if we could determine a primary topic and redirect epsilon zero and epsilon nought to that topic. The hatnotes are sufficient for the current DAB needs and new uses of epsilon zero such as (potentially) Jamison Boaz's music project Epsilon Zero can go on the main Epsilon DAB. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC says we can establish a primary topic by usage and long-term significance.

• Practical usage: A graph of search interest shows epsilon zero is a little less popular than vacuum permittivity and way less popular than permittivity. The top Google result for epsilon zero is vacuum permittivity, so most people will be disambiguated there - I do not think modifying the Wikipedia redirects will change this. The next result is the epsilon number DAB and according to [1] 2/3 of the people who go to epsilon number click through to the ordinal article. Changing this to a real article will really help, regardless of which target is chosen.
• Scholarly usage: from googling, all the permittivity usages are like "vacuum permittivity written e0 pronounced epsilon zero" - it is only the constant's orthography that epsilon zero refers to, it is not an alternate name. In contrast epsilon zero is used for the ordinal in written out form as the actual name, like this book title or this prose or this prose. So a reader is more likely to need the ordinal definition of epsilon zero when they come across it in the wild - in physics the surrounding prose will use permittivity and the reader can use that as a keyword.
• Long-term significance: the ordinal is IMO more significant, as it "appears in many induction proofs", and similarly in philosophical/mathematical discussions on infinity. Per Vacuum permittivity#Historical_origin_of_the_parameter_ε0 the constant is a "measurement-system constant" resulting from rationalization of units and like μ₀ "does not, in any meaningful sense, describe a physical property of the vacuum". It appears in many equations but only in the trivial role of making the dimensions balance out.

So my proposal:

• Epsilon number: Redirect to Epsilon numbers
• Epsilon zero: redirect to Epsilon numbers
• Epsilon nought: redirect to Epsilon numbers
• Epsilon numbers: current content of Epsilon numbers (mathematics)
• Epsilon (disambiguation): existing content + DAB entries here
• Vacuum permittivity: Current content with hatnote fixed to point to Epsilon numbers

--Mathnerd314159 (talk) 20:13, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Epsilon numbers (mathematics) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:33, 14 July 2022 (UTC)