Talk:Equinoxe

Use in documentary

Equinoxe Part IV was used in a science documentary some years ago, and I'm wracking my brain trying to remember which one. If you know, please add it to this article. dkliman (talk) 15:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Equinoxe parts 1, 3 and 4 were apparently used in "Cosmos"

The website http://cosmic_voyager.tripod.com/cosmosindex.htm contains a list of the music featured in the original US TV broadcasts.

The music used in other versions can and does differ for various reasons that are explained there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.121.201 (talk) 05:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Instruments list

Re: "Fairlight CMI Digital Sampling Synthesiser" that someone added – did this exist in 1978? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricadus (talk • contribs) 18:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

No, the frst well-known album on which a Fairlight CMI was used was Peter Gabriel in 1980. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.73 (talk) 20:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Kind of irrelevant now, as the Fairlight has long since been removed from the list. Richard3120 (talk) 01:20, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Name of the album

It should be Equinoxe, without the accent. Some releases of the album:

Germany CD

MFSL CD

France LP

Canada CD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.74.246.99 (talk) 19:36, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

The title is Equinoxe at Discogs (list of releases), without accent, in discogs you can see the list of releases, including referring *scans*.(E-Kartoffel (talk) 13:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC))

It is without accent, because:

• Equinoxe is a title, or a name, with a first capital letter. In common french language, accents on letters vanish when capitalized. Within a french sentence about an equinox, it would be spelled équinoxe (only if it is not the first word in the sentence). When you speak about the work titled Equinoxe, it is spelled without accent.
• Sadly the discogs.com community does not understand that OXYGENE (all capitalized, as used on many releases) stands for Oxygène, this is truly their fault. the wikipedia community is better informed ... (E-Kartoffel (talk) 13:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

This edit seems to go against that. I would like to revert; does anybody disagree? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. Ucucha 02:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

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Équinoxe → Equinoxe — Equinoxe should be listed without accent, see here a well researched list of releases: http://www.discogs.com/Jean-Michel-Jarre-Equinoxe/master/49172 User:E-Kartoffel 10:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Even on the French-language pages on the artist's website, it's without the accent, though the accents for other releases such as Oxygène are present. I wouldn't put much stock in the website you cited -- it indiscriminately strips all diacritics (at least on the Jarre pages I looked at) and therefore tells us nothing about how to write the name of this particular album in English. The artist's website is the most authoritative thing we'll get on something like this (as opposed to, say, the name of a city), so we can move to Equinoxe safely without having to consider more questionable sources. --Atemperman (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

This may be relevant: "“É”, the upper-case version of “é”, has lost some use in French due to typographical reasons. “E” can be sometimes used in its place, when the accented “é” is unavailable “E” is sometimes used to represent it. For example “ÉCOLE” becomes "ECOLE"." — AjaxSmack 02:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Does that mean that in French works of reference, words with accents on capital letters are treated as if the accent weren't there? Or in some typographical styles, are hte accents there but "invisible"? FWIW, fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecole redirects to fr.wikipedia.org/École. --Atemperman (talk) 16:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

cosmos TV series Carl Sagan

Parts of Equinox also used in the above. Perhaps it should be included in the article. Jakescows (talk) 13:03, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes it was used in the TV series, but we would need a reliable source to use as a reference in order to add it. Richard3120 (talk) 13:08, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

The accented E is definitely wrong

Per the cover and artist's own discography (the Spotify embed should be ignored there). @E-Kartoffel, Redrose64, Atemperman, and AjaxSmack: let's have a full discussion and sort this out. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 12:46, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

Note: policy WP:TITLE including WP:ENGLISHTITLE, WP:TRANSLITERATE and WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS, and guideline Project:Manual of Style/Titles of works § Translations defers to WP:COMMONNAME back at WP:TITLE.

It's been awhile, but again per French orthography § Diacritics: "Diacritics are often omitted on capital letters, mainly for technical reasons (not present on AZERTY keyboards)". Wikipedia does not have those technical limitations, as can be seen in the French Wikipedia article title. Your source also omits the diacritic on Oxygène. —  AjaxSmack  13:07, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

It is not our place to decide that the artist is incapable of presenting their work as intended and fix it for them. Your argument is original research. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 13:56, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

Lack of formatting in some sources does not rise to the level of OR. It's a style issue along the lines of WP:HYPHEN or MOS:TITLECAPS. If you can find sources that use capital É for other words but not for Équinoxe, that would be evidence that the title is not in fact simply the French word for "equinox". —  AjaxSmack  02:11, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

MOS:TITLECAPS is a practically irrelevant attempt to cherry pick without referring to its child, MOS:NONENGTITLE, if you want to talk about the style of capitalisation of non english titles – "Retain the style of the original for modern works". But since the issue here isn't about the capitalization, the cherry you picked is rotten. WP:HYPHEN requires reaching so far you'll strain something. COMMONNAME is pretty much all the guidance needed here. I will be carrying out the required work unless there is sensible objection. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 11:10, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

I noted that throughout the article, diacritics have been added to Equinoxe (and Oxygene) even in source |title=s and quotations. All of these misquotations need to be fixed even if the article title isn't. I have fixed a couple already. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 19:55, 6 August 2025 (UTC)

Also pinging @Ucucha: (moved this page to Equinoxe in 2010) and @Xhienne: (moved it back again in 2013, though they've not edited here since 2018). Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 11:26, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

I moved it as a result of the Requested Move two sections up from here. It seems reasonable to me that if the artists themselves present the work without the accent, we should follow them. Ucucha (talk) 15:13, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for joining Ucucha. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:55, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

While I am happy to wait a little while for pinged editors to reply (they might be on holiday or something), as things stand, I would be happy to move the page and cleanup the OR. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:55, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

I have the following observations:

• The album front cover has no diacritics
• The French article fr:Équinoxe (album)) does have a diacritic, even though it's capitalised as a proper noun
  • So does their article fr:équinoxe
• The argument that capital letters do not take diacritics is debatable. We should remember thet the MediaWiki software uppercases the first letter of all article titles, even if that would create a capital with a diacritic.

I'd stay with the diacritic. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:19, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. Do you not think COMMONNAME and related policies/guides trump quirks of the MediaWiki software? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 20:15, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

On further reflection (and after getting back home), I don't understand your commentary. What the French Wikipedia is doing doesn't seem to me to have any bearing on what we should be doing. At this time, in this discussion, there has been no argument presented that the article should be renamed (moved) to a title without the diacritic because capital letters do not take diacritics; I personally don't even know if they should or not and don't understand French beyond a few words and phrases adopted into English and those remembered from rudimentary lessons at school some decades ago. I have presented a list of relevant policies we are expected to follow, and am seeing no convincing argument that in this case we should ignore those rules. The artist himself presents the work to an English audience as "Equinoxe" on his own official website, and the COMMONNAME is clearly the same. There really isn't much to discuss here, BUT, since this article has been moved twice over this issue, not attempting some reasoned consensus before moving it again would be asking for trouble. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 23:33, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Looking at what other Wikis and pages are doing is quite amusing, if not helpful.

• We have Equinoxe Infinity.
• The Japanese Wikipedia has 軌跡 (ジャン・ミッシェル・ジャールのアルバム), and some interesting things to say about the use of the diacritic.
• The Greek Wikipedia doesn't seem to have articles for any of Jarre's studio albums, but on his article, Ζαν-Μισέλ Ζαρ, Équinoxe and Equinoxe Infinity are redlinked.

It's a good job absolutely none of that matters, or we'd be in a right pickle. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 23:56, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Why bring up Japanese and Greek? Jean-Michel Jarre is French, and Équinoxe was recorded in France and first released in France. I'd say that Japanese and Greek have absolutely nothing to do with the matter. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:23, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

To make clear why what other language Wikipedias are doing is irrelevant. This, being the English Wikipedia, has its own very simple policies, to which I have referred over and over, which for no apparent reason, are being ignored in place of frivolous arguments about French language norms and how they're applied elsewhere. This discussion has been ridiculous since before I started it afresh. There was never a worthy argument against abiding by our normal policies; this page was moved twice was little regard for them. Introducing the Japanese and Greek Wikipedias seems to fit this farce quite nicely; they're the cherry on the icing. I will be moving this page per COMMONNAME and other related English Wikipedia article naming policies, unless someone presents a reasonable opposition, soon. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 20:08, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Considering the comments here (nb WP:PCM), you should use the WP:RM process to move the page and thereby solicit wider input. While you have a case for reverting per the the previous RM discussion, it was over 15 years ago. —  AjaxSmack  16:25, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

It is very sad, and a damning indictment of some editor's grasp of our basic policies that this move might be considered controversial, but if unreasonable contest may be ongoing, so be it! Let's waste time, effort and resources debating the grammar of the policies, alongside a hearty smattering of poorly disguised opinion, with the pretense that this article should, for no apparent reason, be treated as a special case, then cap it all off with a count-up of the !votes before the closer does whatever the hell they feel like doing that day. Excellent idea. Yay.

Or maybe, this time, it'll be different. Maybe this time, reason will out!

Yeah, right. If there was any chance of that, the page would have been moved already. Oh wait, it was... Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 18:28, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 17 August 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There's agreement that the page should be moved, and that sources don't refer to it using the diacritic. Wikipedia is about what sources say, not what editors personally believe may be an error (WP:OR), so a move back to its original title seems clear. (closed by non-admin page mover) ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:44, 4 September 2025 (UTC)

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Équinoxe → Equinoxe – Adherence to WP:TITLE, with a sensible and particular attention to WP:COMMONNAME, WP:ENGLISHTITLE, WP:TRANSLITERATE and WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS would result in this article being titled Equinoxe (note the lack of diacritic/accent on the E).

• This article was originally created with no diacritic October 13, 2004
• It was moved to a diacritical title without any apparent discussion November 3, 2008
• The first attempt at discussion about the title started December 29, 2009
  • The editor attempted to show that the artist had not used a diacritic in the title of their work, by referencing images of various release covers on Discogs
  • While the use of Discogs as a source should be very carefully considered, it only shows what is unarguably clear on the artist's official website
  • There was no mention of policies or even guidelines, and while there was no immediate direct response to this attempt, a few responses did come over time
• The next discussion was a sloppy request to move back to a non-diacritical title started February 16, 2010
  • The initial request included another reference to Discogs as the sole argument, with again, no mention of policy
  • Through the entire move request discussion, policy was not mentioned
  • The page was moved back to the non-diacritical title February 24, 2010
• A short editing war broke out over the use of the diacritic in the content, which for no apparent reason ended April 11, 2010 in the content being strewn with diacritics while the title had none; no mentions of policy throughout
  • The final edit of this war was mentioned in one of those few comments added May 15, 2010 to the section of the first attempt to discuss the title, when it was suggested that it should be reverted, though never was
  • The editor then suggesting that the diacritics should be removed, has since gone on to suggest that they should be kept August 13, 2025
• An editor decided to move the article again, without any apparent discussion or mention of policy, to the diacritical title January 18, 2013
• Literally nothing happened for over a decade...
• I sloppily attempted to start a new discussion of the how the diacritic should not be in the title August 5, 2025, pinging some editors previously involved
  • The immediate response was enthusiastic original research
  • Realising that some clarity was needed, I noted the relevant policies, and that there was mistitled sources and even misquotes in the article which all need fixing
  • While I have repeatedly referred to the relevant policies, the responses in favour of the diacritic have been what reads like unreasonable nonsense about stylistics, WP:HYPHEN (yeah, I have no idea why) and one bizarrely-arrived-at conclusion that the diacritic should remain in the title from the same editor who suggested the diacritics in the content should be removed when the title had no diacritic in 2010

My evaluation of the history of this article's title changes is that the policies have been completely ignored in favour of personal preference and original research. It is clear what the relevant policies are, and they themselves are clear; this article should be titled with no diacritic. I am certain that this move is completely uncontroversial with regard to policy, and there has never been and I can't imagine there ever being any reasonable opposition to it, but there has been, albeit ridiculous, "debate" about the diacritic in the title before, so so here we are. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 15:57, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

• Comment It seems by a quick overview of the cited sources that none of the titles of articles use a diacritic, and the word on the album cover does not use it either. Becuase of these reasons I would lean towards moving it unless someone brings forward a good counterargument.★Trekker (talk) 23:04, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
• ​​Support per WP:ENGLISHTITLE, album cover, and almost every reliable source. Station1 (talk) 02:12, 18 August 2025 (UTC)
• Maybe of relevance at French orthography § Diacritics is: "Diacritics are often omitted on capital letters, mainly for technical reasons (not present on AZERTY keyboards). However, many authorities, including the Académie française and the Office québécois de la langue française, reject this usage. The Académie states that, because accents in French have full orthographic value and their absence can lead to misreading and mispronunciation, good typography must systematically use diacritics on capital letters." There is no evidence that French-born and based Jean-Michel Jarre intended his album to have a title different from the word équinoxe (French for "equinox), hence the French Wikipedia article title "Équinoxe (album)". Also cf other Jarre albums Oxygène, Les Chants Magnétiques and Musique pour Supermarché that appear to simply have French words or phrases as titles.

  With this, and the fact that many of the nominator's sources drop all diacritics, I mentioned above that a formatting issue like this is a style issue along the lines of WP:HYPHEN or MOS:TITLECAPS. If there sources that use capital É for other words but not for Équinoxe, that would be clear evidence that the title is not in fact simply intended to be the French word for "equinox". Otherwise, Wikipedia should not be limited by the technical limitations of other eras or sources. —  AjaxSmack  14:00, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

• This proposal has matured (for want of a more suitable word) and is due for closure. With regard to our very own policy on consensus, there is no wiggle room here. We're ultimately bound by policy, there can be no arbitrary third option compromise, and no amount of !voting matters. Which policies apply and how they apply couldn't be simpler. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 01:26, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.