Talk:Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: LM150 (talk · contribs) 16:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

I'll be happy to review this. Sorry it's taken long; I saw that the previous review was rolled-back. Please note this is not my first GA review, I recently had a username change! I'll give as much feedback possible, and do a few copyedits, to help bring this up to GA-level.

Early life

• (I'll come back to the lead at the end)
• "retires" - should be "retired"
• "Harris, in a basement tape" - this is the first mention of basement tape, so I would add "in a home-recorded video, also known as 'The Basement Tapes'.." This will make it clearer as to what it is with a wikilink
• "While Harris was in 7th grade, he met Klebold." - don't you think it's a bit early to mention this? You mention it in "Background"
• "Harris entered Columbine High School in 1995 as a freshman." - didn't he go to Ken Caryl Middle School first, then Columbine? eg. he transferred schools in his freshman?
• Dylan Kleboid - the first paragraph should be focused on Kleboid, his family and background. But it describes Sue's aftermath of the shooting? I think you should bring the second paragraph up, and move the aftermath elsewhere.
• CPR and pyloric stenosis need wikilinks to their respective articles
• "smitten" - doesn't sound encyclopedic, perhaps 'close'?
• "but then moved over to engineering" - should we mention he worked as a geophysicist, as per the source?
• "According to reports, Klebold was exceptionally bright" - needs a reliable source (YouTube video doesn't work anymore). If you have a reliable source, then you won't need to write 'according to reports'
• Last paragraph about Klebold meeting Harris - do you think it's better placed in the "Background" section?
• Images - you've uploaded 2 images which are nominated for deletion. Please see their respective Commons page, and remove them from this article unless you can prove the rights to use them here

Background

• "Both were into computers. Both took a bowling class." - merge these sentences
• "painfully shy" - "very shy" might do
• "Much of the information on Harris and Klebold's friendship is unknown, on their interactions and conversations" - perhaps this might sound better: "Little is known on Harris and Klebold's conversations and interactions"
• "hanging out" - too informal, perhaps "socialized"?
• More sources needed here - I didn't find anything in the Westword reference [30] that they were bowling, carpooling and playing Doom
• Who's Judy Brown, mother of Brooks Brown?
• "infernal friendship[33]" - is there a non-YouTube source for this?
• "Harris and Klebold linked their personal computers.." - more sources needed in this paragraph. The CNN source at the end doesn't support all of this.

More comments to come, thanks! LM150 16:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Acquiring arms

• Second paragraph needs more sources to support those statements
• Same for third paragraph
• Are there any other explosives/weapons to be aware of? What about knives? LM150 23:00, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Suggested rationale

• First paragraph isn't about their rationale/motive - but about whether they should be memorialized. This is better placed elsewhere.
• "Harris and Klebold wrote some" - doesn't make sense
• "Much speculation occurred.." - isn't this paragraph better placed in the "Massacre" section?
• "Washington Post" - "The Washington Post"
• "Robyn Anderson, who knew the perpetrators, stated that..." - source needed
• "staffers" - "staff"
• "picked on" - perhaps "harassed"?
• "Vanderau noted that a "cup of fecal matter" was thrown at them.[89] - do you mean "witnessed" that a cup was thrown? Also source doesn't work.
• "Bullying however has been disputed as being the motivating factor by others." - should we mention psychologist Peter Langman disputes it, as per the source?
• "for which each received ten months of juvenile intervention counseling and community service in January 1998." - isn't this already mentioned in the "Initial legal encounters" section?
• "In April 2009, Professor Aubrey Immelman.." - there's a [dead link] tag at the end of the paragraph. Also are you sure it's 2009 and not August 2004?
• "Page after page was covered in hearts, as he was secretly in love with a Columbine student." - really, I didn't see anything in the USA Today source that he was in love with someone? This paragraph may need additional sources, eg. for "Klebold wrote that life was no fun without a little death"
• Overall, the "Journals and investigation" is a little jumpy - perhaps the first few paragraphs are focused on the journals, then the investigation afterwards? LM150 14:32, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
• I'm not sure if "Media accounts" is the right title - shouldn't it be something about their motive/influences?
• "which is overwhelmingly uncommon in mass shooters" - quite a bold claim and needs reliable sources if true

Reaction of Sue Klebold

• "among other things" - too vague, perhaps remove this
• "Six months later, she saw the Basement Tapes" - six months after the massacre?

Legacy

• "ITV describes the legacy of Harris and Klebold as deadly, as they have inspired several instances of mass killings in the United States." - source needed
• "with many praising Harris and Klebold" - who, other shooters?
• "closure of entire school districts" - are there any examples to give?
• "A 2015 investigation by CNN identified.." - source needed for this sentence
• "The 2002 Michael Moore documentary.." - sentence needs source
• The paragraphs in the popular culture section could be merged

- LM150, we have fixed all these issues, after several edits. Feel free to check again for any other suggestions you have before you submit your final evaluation. Thanks! - Acekard (talk · contribs) 11:09, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. Acekard, here's a few things I noticed:

• Many of the issues mentioned above are still present! Please make these improvements.
• The lead section should be a summary of the article, so it's not necessary to add sources next to "bullying, mental illness, racism, psychiatric medication and media violence." As long as the article states these facts with their sources, then it is sufficient.
• "his family was forced to relocate to another area in the country[17]" - source is giving me a dead page; please find a non-YouTube source for this
• "he appeared somewhat sheltered in elementary school.[32] - source is giving me a dead page; please find a non-YouTube source for this
• "ammunition from Mark Manes, who did not deliver it until the evening of April 19."[88] - I just looked at source 88, which is page 20 of Psychology of terrorism and did not see anything about ammunition.
• Please review the sourcing; it is still very weak I'm afraid. What is written must be supported by reliable and verifiable sources. Many books have been published about Columbine and you should try to use them if possible! LM150 16:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

- Ok, I will look into this ASAP and will get back to you. Thank you! - Acekard (talk), 18:56, 17 December 2020 (UTC) TC)

- LM150, I have fixed all the issues you mentioned and added reliable sources. If there weren't any, I removed the claim. Thank you! - - Acekard (talk), 09:16, 20 December 2020 (U

Acekard, I'm really sorry but I'm failing this article. There are still many outstanding issues, mentioned above since November, not fixed. Secondly, I have read through the article again and I do not think it is comprehensive enough. Much more can be written about the pair, their personalities and school lives. There are also prose issues throughout. It might help if you do some wider reading to beef up this article, and ask for a copyedit and/or peer review. Thanks, LM150 10:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC)