Talk:Eritreans

New content

This is now a page for the worldwide population of Eritreans, as opposed to Demographics of Eritrea. Thiqq (talk) 16:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Excellent solution

Excellent work Thiqq and RiverNile1. Creates a useful article here, and keeps the Demographics of Eritrea article about the actual country, in line with similar articles. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 19:02, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Related national groups

The subject of this article is the people of ethnic groups native to Eritrea, whether they are Eritrean nationals or not. This article was created specifically in contrast to Demographics of Eritrea, which concerns the citizens and residents of Eritrea, regardless of their ethnic background. @Leechjoel9: Yes, the term Eritreans does technically refer to a nationality, but this article refers to the ethnic groups of said nation. The same is true of the articles for Ethiopians, Somalis, and Djiboutians. The ethnic groups within these countries are closely related, and there is no reason not to identify this relation.

Nationality has nothing to do with ethnicity, this is a page of Eritreans specifically. To claim relation based on nationally is obscure. There is nothing connecting the nationality (Eritreans) to (Djiboutians) for example, these countries also consists of 120+ ethnic groups, most whom are not related what so ever. For instance Canadanians or Mexicans are not related to Americans only because they share some history or are neighbouring countries. Leechjoel9 (talk) 15:02, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Nationality is often essentially synonymous with ethnicity, actually. This is a page for the people who are native to Eritrea. This is not a page for Eritrean nationals. I have already acknowledged that there are many ethnic groups within these countries, but you're completely incorrect to say that most of those groups "are not related what so ever". First of all, there are ethnic groups that span across national borders (for example Afar people, Agaw people, and Somalis). Second of all, there are different groups that are extremely closely related (for example Tigrayans and Tigrinya people). Third of all, nearly every ethnic group across these four countries is related to another by way of linguistic family (for example Semitic languages, Cushitic languages, and Omotic languages are all Afroasiatic languages). This ethnolinguistic relation is precisely the same relation identified in articles such as Italians, French people, Swedes, etc. I can tell your English is not the best, so I assume you're not being wilfully ignorant, but I've clearly addressed your concerns twice now. Please refrain from unconstructive editing. Thiqq (talk) 15:45, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

In this case it’s not synonymous with ethnicity like in European countries where the dynamics are completely different. This page is about people who are native to Eritrea, that also refers to the nationals of Eritrea and the ethnic groups of this country and that only. To claim that the nationals and all of Eritreas ethnic groups are all related to the nationals and ethnic groups of Ethiopia, Somalia and Djibouti is incorrect. In the articles you mention ethnolinguistic relation is sometimes mentioned, but nowhere in these articles is nationality (I.e France, Italy) mentioned as a relation, instead “Germanic people” is mentioned. In the case of Eritrea that would be equivalent to “Ethiosemtic”, “Kushitic” and “Nilo-Saharan” people. But even within those groups there are ethnic groups who all speak a different native language, trying to lump up 120 ethnic groups and four countries and call them related is incorrect. I also advice you to stop edit warring. Leechjoel9 (talk) 19:25, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Even in European countries they are not actually synonymous, though. There are people of various ethnicities living in Germany, for example, who are Germans by residence and citizenship, but the term "German" refers to people of ethnically German descent as well. This article uses the second definition. This article was created expressly for Eritreans of the second definition. Whereas Germanic languages are concentrated in a much smaller area and among a much less diverse group of people, the language families spoken in the Horn of Africa encompass a vast area and extremely different cultures. Hebrew and Amharic are both Semitic languages, but to imply that the relation between Israelites and Amharas is even remotely comparable to that between Germans and Swedes is ridiculous. Simply removing the related ethnic groups section entirely is extremely unconstructive. I am not trying to imply that every single ethnic group from these countries is closely related to every single other ethnic group (e.g. Kunama people are not closely related to Tigrinya people even though they are both Eritreans), but there is a web of relations between the groups of these countries that does connect almost all of them (e.g. Amhara people ARE closely related to Tigrinya people, even though they are native to different countries). Furthermore, in addition to linguistic relations, Horn Africans have shared histories and cultures which absolutely plays a role in this. I am not simply trying to instate my preferred version of this article, I am against your edits because they go against the nature of what the article is meant to be. @Gyrofrog:, @BubbaJoe123456: I am pinging the two of you for your input in this matter. Thiqq (talk) 20:25, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

To write that all Eritreans are related to Djiboutians, Ethiopians and Somalians is to imply that all the ethnicities of these countries are somehow related, which is incorrect. Some ethnicities of these countries have some historical ties like ethnolinguistics ties, that is not to say that all of them do, majority of them don’t and majority of them have not crossed path or share ancestry. The example you give with Kunamas and Tigrinya of Eritrea is also incorrect, those two are both native Eritrean ethnic groups that have lived side by side for over 3000 years, affecting one another through time, they also share nationality for that reason. Each of these ethnic groups have their own articles where ethnic relation is already mentioned in the info boxes. But to add relation based on nationality in this article is misleading and incorrect. Leechjoel9 (talk) 09:42, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

The fact that you think Kunamas and Tigrinyas are closely related simply because they are both native to Eritrea demonstrates to me that you do not grasp the fundamental concept of ethnicity. As Nilo-Saharan people, Kunamas are more closely related to the Gumuz people than they are to Semitic-speaking Tigrinyas. @Gyrofrog:, @BubbaJoe123456: pinging again because I've seen that one of you has been online since I last pinged. I suspect this may be a Hoaeter sockpuppet. Thiqq (talk) 16:14, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Nowhere have I stated that Kunama and Tigrinya are closely related. They do share some history since they have lived together side by side for over 3000 years, to mention an example Kunama language exist in a Tigrinya dialect. Both are considered native ethnic groups of Eritrea and are also recognised as such. This is not a discussion about who’s Eritrean and not so don’t change subject. Leechjoel9 (talk) 17:14, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Due to other commitments, I can't promise that my involvement in this discussion will extend beyond this comment. I also doubt it will be very helpful, but since I was summoned here (twice), you get me in this particular frame of mind. Sorry. (Whatever else you saw me doing on Wikipedia in the meantime was probably, quite frankly, something relatively easy for me to do.) With that out of the way: I'm not sure why this article should deal only with "the people of ethnic groups native to Eritrea," and it isn't at all clear to me that it was created for that reason. From 2007 until June of this year it was a redirect to Demographics of Eritrea (which, without actually looking at that article, presumably also deals with things like age distribution, urban/rural divide, employment figures, etc. so I can understand branching this off as a separate article). If I happen to look up, for example, Canadians, its scope is very different from what's been asserted here: "Canadians ... are people identified with the country of Canada. This connection may be residential, legal, historical or cultural." That seems really simple and straightforward to me, and you've caught me in a frame of mind where "simple and straightforward" are especially positive attributes. Also: aside from whatever issues one may have with Leechjoel9, based on what I've seen, I strongly doubt that Leechjoel9 is a Hoaeter sockpuppet. For example, he reported one of the Hoater accounts to WP:ANI a while back (link). If you have other evidence, then it properly belongs at WP:SPI. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:07, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

This article did previously exist as a redirect, but earlier this year it was converted to be a standalone article in its own right in order to deal with information regarding the ethnic groups native to Eritrea. Specifically, it was converted in order to include diaspora populations. You single out the Canadians article, but you ignore articles such as Italians which considers those with Italian ancestry to be Italian people. I myself am a member of the Eritrean diaspora. I report myself as having Eritrean ancestry on the census, and I absolutely consider myself an Eritrean. However, I am not, nor have I ever been, an Eritrean resident or citizen. My identity as an Eritrean is not a national identity. It is an ethnic one. From my perspective, an Eritrean ethnic/ancestral identity is obvious, though I understand that it may not be so obvious for everyone. Not every situation is "simple and straightforward", so I hope I've simplified and forwardly-straightened this one for you. Thiqq (talk) 04:05, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

You've got to be kidding me, are people taking these troll comments seriously? Ethiopians, Eritreans, Djiboutians are very closely related national origin groups, anyone denying that knows nothing about Horn African history. These people groups have considerable overlap in cultural, linguistic, and ethnic makeup commonalities. Anthropology12 (talk) 03:37, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Conesus already exists for including Ethiopians and Djiboutians as related national identity groups to Eritreans. All are located in the Horn of Africa, have had a shared history with each other, and have similar ethnic and ethno-linguistic groups. 129.174.182.62 (talk) 17:53, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

There exist no such consensus. What have been explained to you is that some ethnics of these countries share history to some extent, majority of them don’t. But too say that all the nationalities (Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti) are related on a national country level is incorrect, and relation by nationality is not practiced on these Wikipedia articles. Those who are related ethnic groups have a link to their related ethnic groups, respectively, on their own articles. There are over 120 ethnic groups. This page is also like Gyrofrog explained about Eritrea, Eritreans and Eritrea’s ethnic groups and it has nothing to do with those other countries. Leechjoel9 (talk) 07:06, 18 September 2021 (UTC)