Talk:Ero guro

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 30 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ianwinters94 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Dslaym (talk) 13:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Merge?

Hmm... EroGuro and Ero-guro pretty much refer to same thing. The article for the EroGuro seems to be more general ("an artistic, cultural and music sub-genre" ... "expanded its proverbial tendrils into parts of Japanese theatre, art, manga, and eventually film" etc), though it's under the category Japanese styles of music. Ero-guro seems to focus only on the visual aspect in art and manga. How about merging the two articles under the category Japanese art? Ketsumaru 08:53, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• agree, merge them together, but with or without the hyphen? Chris 23:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• My vote's on without the hyphen - expanded, the phrase would be "erotic grotesque", not "erotic-grotesque". Tzaquiel 23:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
• You have to be really fooked in the head to like this snuff anime.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Honey blade (talk • contribs) .
• If you don't like it, no one's forcing you to look at it, or even this page. If you don't have anything helpful to add, then please don't post. MassiveDamage 04:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Erotic Grotesque Nonsense

You'll probably find more referenses under "Erotic Grotesque Nonsense" originally a film/literary movement. There is probably little on the current Visual Kei movement in verifiable publication outside of Japanese sources.

I think the article needs to clearly distingish between the original literay movements, (20s-30's japan) and EroGuro in Manga, and EroGuro in music (1990s). This is probably lacking because the articles were merged. Inugami Circus-Dan is definately Angura Kei, so I removed them and added a bit about it. The original movements are pretty clearly separate, but they get blurred when applied to modern music movements (because they both happened in music around the same time). I also removed Alice Nine, if someone wants to explain whats erotic and grotesque about them here, give it a shot. It would be nice to see more information on the original movement from pre WWII Japan as well Denaar 17:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Shock site material?

Would sites with EroGuro galleries be considered shock sites? -Unsigned

If they're sites that are related to the subject of EroGuro, then no. The content may be shocking to most, but the sites are legit since they're relevant to the article. -Unsigned

In war atrocities

Is that section an outright joke or just poorly phrased? 70.53.99.121 23:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Project assessment

I realize it can be difficult to describe an artistic/musical style or movement without concrete examples, but I really don't think this article conveys any sense of what EroGuro is really like. I had never heard of visual kei before, but upon looking it up, and discovering the description and examples of Mana, Malice Mizer, etc, I understand pretty well what visual kei refers to now. The article just needs some work is all. LordAmeth 00:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Guro Lolita

There appears to be a recently-emergent subset of Elegant Gothic Lolita known as "Guro Lolita" which seems to entail dressing in basic Lolita fashion, "gored up" with the addition of fake blood, bloodstained eyepatches, bandages etc. - basically looking like a mutilated doll or "Zombie Lolita". There isn't a seperate Guro Lolita entry, and currently there is only a very brief one-line mention of it in the main Lolita fashion entry. My own experienceof gurololi is soley through contact in the BJD world, so I don't really feel confident to add to the main article at present. Arkady Rose 06:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

This needs an illustration

I feel that this page needs a picture or something-DESU 11:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the image for now, since an explicit display of gore is probably not appropriate for a general purpose encyclopedia. Certainly someone can provide an image that only qualifies as unusual or weird, as opposed to downright disturbing. - Cyrus XIII 22:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. I've uploaded IwaAndIzaemonCover.jpg, if you think it passes muster feel free to add it, as I'm not sure how to add a thumbnail image to an article. I felt it was a good preview of what can be found in guro without being overly gross. MassiveDamage 04:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, because everybody knows anything with offensive content is automatically a social critique. *rolleyes* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.26.204 (talk) 01:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

Guro is gross; that's what it's named after. We can't have an image that shows guro without it being gross; we can't have an image that shows guro without offending a large portion of visitors. It won't be guro if it doesn't. Per WP:NOTCENSORED, I think this line of argument is off, as a potential image would be illustrating the subject matter. The bigger problem, I think, is finding an illustration that properly treats the subject; eroguro is an incredibly loose subject. Estemi (talk) 00:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Question

Is ero-guro really a legit genre? I mean, the work of Suehiro Maruo legitimately passes for art and commands respect among critics and artists of various domains including people like John Zorn whereas Waita Uziga follows comletely different patterns, i.e. his mangas can be rightfully labelled as something like 'fake sÄnuff' and those particularly seem to either appeal to people with certain, um, deviant, extremely sadistic sexual tendencies or others who at the best simply look for shock value.

Furthermore the musicians mentioned in this article don't relate to Uziga and his ilk at all, so the overall lumping of people (and their art/'art') in the same kind of genre doesn't make any sense. I suggest the creation of sub-genres based on a general differentiation between those mentioned above. I'd appreciate it if someone who is knowledgeable enough on this matter and the Japanese language would improve or rewrite the article. -Unsigned

For kicks, I did a Yahoo japan (an auction site) search for Erogoro (エログロ). If Erogoro is really applied to modern pornographic comics in Japan, considering the amount of key word spam used on auction sites, I would expect to see a lot of hits. I only hit 21 items - videos, old movies, some random horror movies, and novels. [1]. Definately articles like this [2] about Suehiro Maruo seem to show that the Erogoro tag is a good one - but I searched the author's official website and the term didn't show up [3]. Should the comics be moved to some sort of H Manga article as a sub-section or remain here?

Next I searched the Japanese wiki, but articles that use the term (no articles with erogoro in the title) are a bit confusing in the usage. The term is used to describe aspects of bands/music, so I'm still on fence about that one - I'm not finding any really good sources for it otherwise. There are quite a few bands under the Visual Kei genre that use the term in song titles.

The main subject is a film/literature movement from the 20s(-40s?) in Japan, and there is a request for more references. Since I last visited this article, a book came out in English about it: [4]

There is an abstract from a paper here [5] by Mark Driscoll, University of Michigan. There is also an article by Jim Reichert The Journal of Japanese (a journal with a strict peer review). The web is just crawling with good sources. Maybe for now the well documented "cultural movement" can be expanded, and the have "manga influenced by" and "music influenced by" as two sub sections? Denaar 05:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

While working on the Sada Abe article recently, I came across a reference to the EroGuro movement, mentioning that the "Sada Abe Incident" of 1936 came to represent the genre for years afterwards. I don't have the book with me now, but will put a citation to it in the article in a couple of days. Also, Sada appeared in one of director Teruo Ishii's films in 1969, and, as the article notes, he is associated with the term "EroGuro" in 1960s cinema. Dekkappai 19:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if eroguro played any role in the Nanking Massacre?

Some of the atrocities committed in that massacre might've been fed by ero guro and I wonder if there's any evidence out there of that. 204.52.215.107 (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

That's definitely a good point. The massacre was soo messed up with what the soldiers did with their victims corpses. Corrupted pleasures. No one should praise nor give thumbs up to ero guro fetishes. 166.181.86.242 (talk) 00:13, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Updates to page

I have been doing research on this topic for a while, but have not been able to find many sources. Outside of English Language sources - I can't find "ero guro" manga. I did one one manga-ka that described Erotic Grotesque Nonsence as an influence on their work, and that was it. They aren't marketed or sold this way. Do a search on Y!J auctions for eroguro and nothing with show up. Also, Angura Kei is the sub-genre of VK. Ero-Guro is only used to describe Cali-Gari, because that was their overall concept. I'm not an expert on this topic, but I've updated the page to reflect my understanding of the topic based on the limited amount of research I've been able to do. Denaar (talk) 03:41, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

What you've added looks good, Denaar... Before, I think the article over-emphasized manga/anime/musical bands (which really have a tangential relationship to the movement-- descendants of the movement), but it's getting more to the literary/artistic origins... We've got mentions of Edogawa Rampo and Teruo Ishii-- two important figures-- but what this article really needs is for someone to go through a major discussion or two of the movement and to put it all in perspective. It's a very interesting subject, so I'm sure there are writings on it... World Cat shows several books in Japanese and one in Korean (it would be interesting to know what, if at all, the movement's relation to Korea was/is, as the movement took form during the era of occupation). I see Ian Buruma has a book with a chapter or two on the movement[6], and there is at least one book on the movement[7]. I don't have access to the Japanese or Korean works, but I'll see if I can get hold of these two English books, and add more to the article in a few weeks... it's something that's been on my mind for a while. Dekkappai (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I just came across this interesting news item: Oakland Tribune / Oakland, California / Saturday, July 17, 1954 / Page 2

BOOK BURNERS-- A group of 3,000 Tokyo mothers calling themselves the "Three Don'ts Movement" have started a book burning campaign to keep obscene literature from children. "We have so far burned 500 erotic and grotesque publications with our own hands because the government has failed" to ban such books from the stores, said Mrs. Kazuko Kurokawa, the leader. The "Three Don'ts Movement" urges Japanese to "Don't see, don't buy, don't read" publications featuring nudes or lewd pictures.

It says "erotic and grotesque", but whether it actually means ero guro I don't know... Dekkappai (talk) 20:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

You know - I've read some sources that say there was a resurgence in eroguro in the 60's but it hasn't ever been very clear. Other's call is a separate movement "Angura" (underground) that was related to it but not the same. I there also is some merit to the idea that the terms are familiar to people and sometimes used in a way that does not refer to the movement at all.

If you search for エログロ on yahoo japan, it pulls up books (literature). That is why I don't understand the manga tie in. If "ero guro" is a type of manga, why aren't any of the manga companies using the term to sell the books, or in the auctions to sell manga? Why don't you get manga images when you search for エログロ on google images? The main problem is I think this article is four separate articles. There is Ero-guro-Nonsense, the literary/cultural movement from the 20's and 30's. But combined in is "the history of horror in Japan" and "manga that has gore and sex in it" and "music influenced by eroguro". Its frustrating because I've pretty much been able to conclude that there isn't a subgenre of music called eroguro, and there isn't a style of manga that is "eroguro" - but there still isn't much out there about the original movement that is accessable online. I think there is a lot of great material here but how much of it should be here, and not in a separate article on the history of horror in Japanese culture? Denaar (talk) 03:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

See also

I removed the series that were under "see also" because they were unnecessary since there are much better examples of Ero guro already mentioned throughout the article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.150.251.124 (talk • contribs)

Gurochan

Gurochan.net seems to be a known forum for this kind of imagery. Would it be right to mention it in the external links? Schoolstage (talk) 17:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Planning on adding a new article to separate "guro" as a pornographic genre and the "ero guro nansensu" artistic movement

This article conflates the two senses of the word guro. It lists many eromanga artists as ones who were apart of the movement, but in fact they have little to do with the "ero guro nansensu" movement of Showa era Japan. The Japanese Wikipedia has two separate articles for "ero guro" and "ero guro nansensu", and I propose that we follow that model. I plan on adding another article specifically about "guro" and editing this page to disassociate the conflations with the pornographic genre.Konomu (talk) 05:02, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Do it pls. Zezen (talk) 07:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@Konomu:, you have moved only this talk page, but not the article it was attached to. I will move this talk page back. When you are ready, you may move the article to the new title, making sure that you move this talk page with it. - Donald Albury 12:15, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@Konomu:, better yet, just leave Ero guro in place, and start the new article at Ero guro nansensu. If you copy any material over from this article, be sure to note that in the talk page for the new article. - Donald Albury 12:34, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I have started the ero guro nansensu page

I opted to start a new page at ero guro nansensu as Donald recommended. I would like you all to help me edit this page so it's less connected to the ero guro nansensu movement. Ero guro nansensu is a style that heavily takes its influences from ero guro, but ero guro art predates the ero guro nansensu movement. There has also been pornographic art in recent years (i.e. Henmaru Machino and Uziga Waita) mentioned in the article that don't necessarily fit into the ero guro nansensu movement.Konomu (talk) 09:35, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Good start. I really know nothing about the subject (my edits to this article have mainly been reverting vandalism), so I probably won't be making substantive edits. I haven't added a template asking for citations to the ero guro nansensu article because you have just started it, but I would request that you provide more citations to reliable sources in the article. - Donald Albury 13:58, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Confusion with ero guro nansensu - merge or better split?

The content in Ero guro and Ero guro nansensu is failing to distinguish between the two terms/genres, and either needs to merge back into a single article or be properly written as two articles on two distinct topics. Probably 80% of the material in the EG article is about EGN, and the EGN aricle makes no mention of EG as something distinct.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Two more sources

I've found two sources that I don't think have been used in this page, here they are in case anyone wants to use them to expand the page.

• https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/10/nsfw-japanese-gore-erotica-is-slowly-catching-on-in-the-west/
• https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/32596/1/ero-guro

Di (they-them) (talk) 01:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)