Talk:Erwig

Footnoting genealogy

His ancestry is perfectly interesting and acceptable for inclusion, but the way Cupertino presents it is (i) hard to follow, probably partly because English appears to be his second language, (ii) too prominent, since it is more interesting than it is informative of Erwig's reign, and (iii) there is no reason to assume that somebody sufficiently interested in Erwig will ignore such a massive footnote (or any footnote for that matter). Srnec (talk) 20:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there is no clear evidence for this genealogy. The Chronicle of Alfonso III (trans. Kenneth Baxter Wolf) states that "in the time of King Chindasuinth, a man by the name of Ardabastus came from Greece--after being expelled from his country by the emperor--crossed the sea, and arrived in Spain. King Chindasuinth received him magnificently and gave to him his niece in marriage. From this union was born a son by the name of Ervig." (Wolf, p. 162). I have been unable to find any mention of Ardabastus' parentage: Murphy in the 1952 Speculum article referenced here writes of Ardobast, "there appears to be no record in the Byzantine history of the time. However, it was natural that he should have sought refuge among the remnants of his fellow nationals in Spain upon being expelled from his native land." (Murphy, 1952, p. 11).

Now looking at Athanagild, the helpless child of St. Hermenegild & Ingunthis, we know very little. According to Collins (Early Medieval Spain, 2nd edition [New York: St. Martins, 1995], p. 48), around the time of his defeat & exile Ingund had fled with him to the Byzantines in Carthage; she died en route, but Athanagild became a hostage and was sent to Constantinople; Collins concludes, "despite attempts by his grandmother Queen Brunechildis to have him sent to her in Francia, he remained [in Constantinople] and disappears from view." (Her attempts to have Athanagild sent to her are preserved in the collection of letters known as the Epistulae Austrasiacae.)

So what little evidence there is about Ardabastus' background points away from any association with Athanagild: no primary source associates the two; the older lived out his life at Constantinople, while the younger may have come from Byzantine Spain, but clearly was not a native of Greece, let alone Constantinople; even the names do not come from the same language. No source is provided for this connection, although Christian Settipani might have speculated it. If so, then he should be cited; if not, then this genealogy should be removed. Erwig's reign is detailed enough & interesting enough in itself to not need fabrications about his ancestry. -- llywrch (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2013 (UTC)