Talk:Erwin, Tennessee

"Hanging Mary" photo

The Erwin article is in need of the famous "Hanging Mary" photo that documents the Erwin hanging of a circus elephant --- check the dates; it is bound to be in the public domain.4.88.55.87 06:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The photo exists on a number of websites, including this one: http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/murderous-mary-1916/. Now, the execution took place in 1916, so that's when the photo would have been shot. However, we will need to confirm that the "famous" version of the photo was actually published prior to 1923 (or published between 1923 and 1977 without a copyright notice) before we can consider it to be in the public domain. Andrea Parton (talk) 20:17, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

The photo is certainly in the public domain, but i think it is too ghoulish and gruesome to use on the pages of an encyclopedia that is available to be read by children and normal adults. Especially in light of the murderous racial atrocity that occurred in the town a mere two years later, it paints a picture of the residents of Erwin as a bunch of psychopaths. Best to leave it out. Catherineyronwode (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

While I agree that the photo is gruesome, Wikipedia is not censored and may contain objectionable content that readers would find shocking or obscene (this, for example). The "Hanging Mary" image depicts an event of historical significance to the city of Erwin, which is already described in the article's prose. Adding a picture to the article may be comparatively tame when considering what WP includes about another infamous elephant's death. As for the photo's addition bringing about a perceived embodiment of the people of Erwin as psychopaths, that all has to be taken into context. What happened a century ago does not reflect Erwin today, but that execution did happen and should not be forgotten. — Paper Luigi ^{T • C} 06:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

City vs. Town

Since "city" and "town" are just different words for the same thing in Tennessee (there is zero significance to the difference in terms), the fact that the Census Bureau called it a city while Erwin called itself a town is irrelevant trivia. Also, the dates in the Census record are suspicious -- other dates in that record are demonstrably inaccurate, and other sources say Erwin was incorporated in 1903, not 1891. Accordingly, I removed the info about the Census error. --Orlady (talk) 04:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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History section update

Having seen drone footage of the extensive flood damage in Erwin caused by Hurricane Helene, i came here to see if updates had been made to the page. I found that the History section was cumulative in style, so i organized it chronologically, added a bit more information about the ethnic cleansing of 1918, and placed a marker-space for details about the hurricane damage of 2024 as they arrive via reliable accounts. Catherineyronwode (talk) 19:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Evidence of white-washing history section repeatedly

Because i saw evidence of a citation to the Ewrin racial atrocity of 1918 having been deleted, i started going through the page's entire history. As early as 2011 a user had added this factual statement and within that same year it was removed by a deletionist editor.

"On May 19, 1918, a black man named Tom Devert was accused of assaulting a white girl. A group of white men summarily murdered Devert, dragged his body to the railyard powerhouse, and forced the entire black population of Erwin to stand and witness Devert's body being burned. The black citizens were then intimidated into leaving town that day or the next, leaving behind their homes and goods. Erwin was known from then on as a town hostile to black people, and in 2011, Erwin's population is still nearly all-white."

In 2013 the material was added in again, with citations, according to newer Wikipedia standards, and it was again deleted. In addition to the deletion of the name of Tom DeVert, mentions of Erwin as a sundown town have been deleted several times and reinstated with remarks such as "Removal of history (regardless if it is positive or negative) violates WP:NPOV." The ethnic cleansing or Erwin Expulsion was now re-phrased as a "banishment" (in quotes -- but no citation was given for the use of the term nor was a reason given to place it in quotes).

When i found the article in 2024, most of the data, the sundown town mention, and one of the citations had been removed. I ended up researching and writing out almost the same information and i am now going to reinstate some of the text from 2011, because it contained a better description of the case.

In the intervening years PBS produced a short documentary on the Erwin Expulsion. It can be found on YouTube, for those who are interested. I am, of course, not using the YouTube URL as a ref in the article.

The Erwin Expulsion of 1918 -- Elliot Jaspin, the author of "Buried in the Bitter Waters: The Hidden History of Racial Cleansing in America", talks about the events that led up to the entire Black population being driven out of Erwin, Tennessee in May of 1918. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xVCONdWEiE

This is a notice to racist deletioninists: you can't make history disappear. Catherineyronwode (talk) 00:17, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your diligence in uncovering the additions and deletions in this article's history and bringing them to light. Doing so is not easy nor is it fun, but it does highlight an ambition to volunteer your time to address the facts of racism during a time when its aspects were culturally, socially, and legally acceptable in the U.S. Since you have shown an interest in this topic, I recommend visiting The Wikipedia Library and applying for access to the Newspapers.com collection, which offers contemporary articles about this violent incident.

Unfortunately, users can and will remove subject matter that they find objectionable regarding racism. Articles on small towns or cities in the U.S. are ripe for both racist histories and a lack of editors watching them regularly, which makes patrolling deletions of sourced content fall on the hands of the few.

The PBS documentary can still be cited without a reference to the YouTube URL. Use Template:Cite AV media if you would like, and fill in all parameters except URL-specific ones. The template does not require the subject media to be available online. — Paper Luigi ^{T • C} 07:18, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Another deletion, after less than 24 hours

My revisions and citations utilizing contemporary news sources describing the Erwin ethnic cleansing of May 1918 were deleted by User:Babysharkboss2 within hours. No explanation was given, nor was the deletion discussed on this talk page.

Note that there are many more words describing the hanging of an elephant in Erwin in 1916 than the murder of a Black man and the expulsion of 131 Black residents in 1918, so it seems that those who have repeatedly made these deletions wish to put the town's reputation for animal abuse on display but would rather keep hidden the town's reputation for racial injustice.

I am going to invite User:Babysharkboss2 to discuss the matter here. Then i am going to wait until tomorrow, and reinstate the material, since no reason was given for deleting it and it was not discussed prior to the deletion. I do not wish to start an edit war, but given the history of deletions of mention of the incident, i think it should be handled here before any further deletions are made. Catherineyronwode (talk) 05:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

It is now the next day. I waited, in order to avoid an edit war. Having gotten no response from the editor who deleted the sourced and cited accounts of the Erwin Expulsion of 1918, and no reason having been given in the edit summary, i am reinstating it. Please do not delete this material again without prior discussion. Catherineyronwode (talk) 17:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Paper Luigi

I want to thank Paper Luigi for cleaning up citations and continuing to improve this page throughout the years. Thank you! Catherineyronwode (talk) 05:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome, and thank you for your contributions to this article as well! — Paper Luigi ^{T • C} 15:01, 4 October 2024 (UTC)