Talk:Eugen Dühring

Untitled

Seems very similar to the text in the link to Marxists.org in the article. Is one copying another? This should be clarified, since the text as it stands raises suspicions of plagarism.

Additionally, Eigen Dühring was by no means a capitalist. He was socialist, but anti-marxist, which explains the violent hatred of marxists against him until today.

Marxists.org is available under the GNU Free Documentation License as long as the source is mentioned there is no problem!!!!! --145.94.41.95 17:11, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

- In any case the Karl Eugen Dühring article is much better and more thorough. And indeed Dühring was a supporter of socialism (or in any case thought he was), that's a major bloop in the Eugen Dühring article.

Die Judenfrage als Frage der Racenschaedlichkeit (1881, The Parties and the Jewish Question), The translation sounds innocent. A more true translation would be The Jewish question as question of the harmfullness of Race — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.38.9 (talk) 16:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Contradiction template

From the article, Dühring was a supporter of capitalism who attacked capitalism, and a heroic materialist who strawmanned materialism in favor of idealism. Or something like that. It's not absolutely impossible that all these could be true statements by some reading, but they're at the very least confusing. --Trovatore 04:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Modified

Removed the contradictory stuff - that's as far as I can go, since nothing by the man is available in English.

A merger with the other entry would be a good idea. --GwydionM 22:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Such a good idea I went and did it myself!

Logically the other page should be turned into a redirect to here. But I'll leave it a few weeks in case anyone else wants to do some editing or correcting.

I toned down the criticism - personally I think Engels was pretty much right in denouncing him, but this is a reference work.

--GwydionM 23:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Why did you copy it here? I would think the merged article should be at Karl Eugen Dühring, assuming that's his correct full name, so it would have made more sense to copy anything relevant from this article to that one. Or is "Eugen" the forename he used more often? (It looks like a surname to me.) --Trovatore 23:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

This source has more links. Also it needed a rewrite anyway. The other is left intact for cross-checking. --GwydionM 17:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The links could be copied to the other page. The correct determinant is not the current state of either article, but rather which is the better name. Is "Eugen" a forename or a surname? What name did he publish under? --Trovatore 17:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Google has 15,000 hits for "Eugen Dühring", just 462 for "Karl Eugen Dühring". It's how he's known to English-speakers.--GwydionM 18:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Expansion

There's probably more that could be said. What was his influence in the 20th century? Has he been republished in German? Does he still have any followers?--GwydionM 17:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Need a source

We need a source for "vindication of Carey" statement and for the Friedrich List connection. --Northmeister 03:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Name

in almost all the wikipedia pages of Dühring it appears as Karl Eugen while here appears Eugen Karl, which is correct?--190.249.32.234 (talk) 05:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

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Recommended complement

The German WP article on Dühring contains a detailed summary of Dühring's antisemitism. Since his thoughts predate much of the violent Nazi ideology they should be included in the article in greater detail. Here the German WP text that ought to be translated and included:

Rassenantisemitismus

1881 erschien Dührings Kampfschrift Die Judenfrage als Racen-, Sitten- und Culturfrage. Mit einer weltgeschichtlichen Antwort. Darin versuchte er, dem Antisemitismus als politischer Bewegung ein pseudowissenschaftliches biologisches, historisches und philosophisches Fundament zu geben. Er beschrieb die „Judenfrage“ – ähnlich wie vor ihm Wilhelm Marr, aber anders als dieser mit wissenschaftlichem Anspruch – als Ausdruck eines unaufhebbaren Rassengegensatzes: Das Judentum sei von Natur aus unvermeidbar der Feind aller Kulturvölker, die sich gegen diesen wehren müssten, um nicht selbst unterzugehen.

Die traditionelle Sicht des Judentums als Religion sei eine Irreführung durch „Priester und Religionsaufklärer“: Deshalb seien Angriffe kirchlicher Theologen wie August Rohling auf den Talmud nebensächlich. Entfalle die religiöse Maskerade, dann werde „der Jude in seiner natürlichen und unveräußerlichen Beschaffenheit offenbar“.[6] Diese Eigenart des Judentums hätten das „niedere Volk und der gewöhnliche Bürgerstand“ mit ihren „natürlichen Instinkten“ immer gespürt.[7] Daran könne auch die Taufe von Juden nichts ändern: Diese würde die Gefahr des Einsickerns von Juden in alle Bereiche der Nation nur vergrößern und Gegenreaktionen erzeugen. Da die jüdische Religion nur Ausdruck von Rasseeigenschaften sei, sei der Unterschied zwischen getauften, angepassten und nichtgetauften Juden hinfällig.

Der Monotheismus sei Ausdruck jüdischer Intoleranz: Der Judengott ist unduldsam wie sein Volk... Die Juden sind seine Knechte, aber dafür wollen sie die Herren der Welt sein.[8] Auch kulturell sei die jüdische Rasse völlig wertlos und nichts als „eingefleischte Selbstsucht“. Der Jude könne nur Werte anderer Völker stehlen und ausbeuten. Als Parasit sorge er für die Korruption seiner Umgebung, da er sich dort am wohlsten fühle. Er führe „seit Urzeiten gegen das Menschengeschlecht“ einen „Unterdrückungs- und Ausbeutungskrieg“.[9] Die Völker müssten sich gegen die Juden wehren wie Rom gegen Karthago, um nicht selbst unterzugehen. Mit diesen Formulierungen spielte Dühring auf bekannte Klischees an: das odium generis – einen den Juden in der Antike oft (etwa von Tacitus) nachgesagten „Hass gegen die Gattung Mensch“ und die zum Sprichwort gewordene Forderung Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam des römischen Senators Cato. Damit verlangte er indirekt die Vernichtung des Judentums.

Daher sei nur eine internationale Lösung der Judenfrage dauerhaft. Die Vertreibung aller Juden sei vorerst undurchführbar und würde das Problem nur an andere Orte verlagern, wo es alsbald neu auftreten werde. Diese Aufgabe müsse man daher „in eine weitere und energischere Zukunft verschieben“. So gesehen, liege die Judenfrage noch vor den Völkern. Ernsthaft zu erwägen sei gegenwärtig die „völkerrechtliche Internierung“ der Juden in für sie bestimmte Regionen. Zu einem „Judenstaat“ sei ihr „Nomadentum“ jedoch unfähig, so dass sie ihre Internierung durchbrechen und ihr Gebiet zur Basis ihrer Weltherrschaft machen könnten. Vorläufig könne man größere Judengruppen nur bei kollektivem Landesverrat „wegschaffen“; das sei dann eine „Deportation“. Vorerst könne nur jede Nation ihre Juden „ausgliedern“, unter Ausnahmerecht stellen und ihr Vermögen kontrollieren, um ihren Einfluss auf Staat, Presse und Erziehung völlig zu beseitigen. Verbrecher unter den Juden seien zu deportieren, Mischehen zu ächten und zu verbieten.[10]

Dies seien jedoch nur vorläufige Schritte; das Endziel antisemitischer Politik müsse die „Ausscheidung des Judentums durch den modernen Völkergeist“ bleiben.[11] In einer späteren Auflage dieses Aufsatzes formulierte Dühring „Ausscheidung der Judenrace aus dem modernen Völkerleben“; 1900 forderte er direkt die „Vernichtung des Judenvolkes“.[12]

In Sociale Rettung durch wirkliches Recht statt Raubpolitik und Knechtsjuristerei aus dem Jahre 1907 warnte Dühring, dass ein „Rassenkampf“ als „Vergeltung der Erregung von Classenhaß“ durch einen „jüdischen Socialismus“ aufkommen werde.[13] Ontologix (talk) 06:10, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Why the Deletion?

In reading the "Thought" section, I was struck by the absence of Schopenhauer's name in relation to Dühring's thoughts on morality. I added the following words in a footnote: "Schopenhauer saw compassion (Mitleid) as the basis of morality." (James Gay, "The Blind Prometheus of German Social Science: Eugen Dühring as Philosopher, Economist, and Controversial Social Critic," Doctoral thesis on obtaining a doctorate in economics from the University of Erfurt, Faculty of Economics, chapter 3, "Philosophy," page 64, note 164.) These words were immediately deleted. I would like to know why they were deleted.96.235.173.81 (talk) 21:28, 26 January 2020 (UTC)DaShawn Applegate

His later life?

The article says he lived until 1921 but the latest reference to him aside from that is 1880.so what did he do with himself over the last 40 years of his life? What was his view of the Great War? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:ED11:5300:69D4:C36F:BAF9:6072 (talk) 03:09, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Translate from German Wiki

I can't read German and my knowledge of philosophy is rather spotty, so someone else is going to have to do this because I don't want a second rate google translate version of the German article here, but the German version of this article has an extremely thorough description of his antisemitic philosophy and how it ended up in the nascient Nazi ideology.ᗞᗴᖇᑭᗅᒪᗴᖇᎢ (talk) 01:06, 3 March 2022 (UTC)