Talk:Eugen Szenkar

Linking

If West Germany should be specified, then specify it - don't link it from a different title. We can't expect readers to know that a link to Germany does not go to Germany and if it did go to Germany there would be no link. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know to whom you talk. I don't think West Germany should be specified. What is West Germany, anyway? I write Düsseldorf. For a conductor, what does it matter if East or West? Had he lived longer it would just have been Germany. Calling GiantSnowman. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:26, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

We display country names, and we display the correct historical country name. GiantSnowman 18:37, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

West Germany is no correct country name, nor is Nazi Germany, nor Weimar Republic. I find it unfair (not in this case) to say Nazi at a prominent position of an article for a person born in the 1940s, so having no connection as an adult to Nazi horror. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:16, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Then what do you believe would be the correct country name in this particular case? My objection is to the West Germany|Germany approach; I don't particularly cared what is displayed nor what (if anything) is linked so long as they match. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:20, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: has right. Gerda, here correct historical country name meant as the article title in the English Wikipedia, as we link that. Nikkimaria has to see that we link such daily and anyway by an enormous amount, more thousands of articles mostly linked designation are; the common name piped with the correspondent contemporary country article. Either it would be "Nazi Germnany|Germany" or just Weimar Republic unpiped, it's just a question of taste. Some editors oppose piping the earlier, some not. I support Gerda and since 1871, anytime German state may be piped with just "Germany". The question of East/West Germany may became relevant at some periods, as in fact two German states existed, hence I see accurately here West Germany (yes linked) would be the best solution, besides Gerda got it right, some guidelines oppose links if they are present ant obvious entities (though I favor links).(KIENGIR (talk) 06:11, 19 October 2020 (UTC))

KIENGIR, unless you can point to a clear consensus discussion supporting piping the current name to a historic article, WP:EASTER supports the use of transparent linking, ie we show the link that readers are actually being directed to. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:44, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Back to first question: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking#What generally should not be linked. We should generally not link to Germany when we mean the current country, nor Berlin. In this person's biography, "West" is of no importance, - he happened to have died in the Western part of Germany, but he could as well have died in Leipzig in the East. - I am willing to specify East or West when it matters, such as a for a politician. I accept editors doing it differently in biographies they write. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria:,

I think GiantSnowman told everything, let's wait if he has something more to say, what I said and more of us follow it's not just the common sense but precisely the right thing. Gerda, we agree in everything, but please see if the English WP would call BRD Flange Germany, or Yellow Germany, then that would be displayed, regardless how much we like it or treat it correctly (of course you could file and RM if you feel it inappropriate). When Kingdom of Hungary (1526–1867) and the Eastern Hungarian Kingdom co-existed, we cannot call the latter just Hungary or Kingdom of Hungary, even being in a single appearance, because it would be ambigous, even if it would be correctly piped (Weisst Du, Deutsche Präzision :) As you know the legendary German precision is much admired. (KIENGIR (talk) 15:27, 19 October 2020 (UTC))

Deutsche Präzision. Does anybody suggest to move Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany to Order of Merit of West Germany? "West Germany" (and the others) may be a common name, but is not precise and not correct (and the talk page archives are full of questioning it, not only by me). I don't want to promote it, and received no answer to that problem. For a conductor, it doesn't matter in which part of Germany he happened to have died. Can we agree on that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

In the case of Nazi or Weimar, I see no issue in piping so that it only shows 'Germany', as that was the popular name of the country. In this case, however, on Wikipedia we have a clear distinction between East/West Germany, and so should display 'West Germany'. GiantSnowman 17:24, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I can live with this solution. Grimes2 (talk) 17:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I beg you to forgive me that I don't agree that West Germany and East Germany are anything but what you call "popular" names. Both not neutral, in a way. East Germany causes more hate than West, but I'd like to treat them the same. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

West Germany is the usual term in English. See: https://www.britannica.com/place/West-Germany

What I say. Popular, usual, common, no doubt about that - just not precise and not correct. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:,

I totally understand what you want to say. Inside the framework of the English WP, the German precision is what Giantsnowman did. Outside of the framework of the English WP Deutsche Präzision ist wast Du gesagt hast wegen Bundesrepublik Deutschland (what you said about Fed. Rep. Ger.). Per WP:ENGLISH, unfortunately West Germany, trial, shall it be unprecise. If ever by the West Germany article there would be filed an RM for Federal Republic of Germany, you will have my support Gerda, in the name of the principle. Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:28, 20 October 2020 (UTC))

I have a miserable record for move requests (Der fliegende Holländer, Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott), and learned not to try the impossible. However, I take the liberty not to use terms I don't agree with, and West Germany is one of them, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart is another. The common name, that the person never used. In his case, we pipe to just Mozart, without someone saying EasterEgg. All I'd like to see is that in articles to which I contribute we can pipe West Germany to Germany. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:,

well, unfortunately those would have the same problem discussed here...well, I also don't have success sometimes, i.e. Ervin Nyiregyházi. Take care, mfg!(KIENGIR (talk) 21:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC))