Talk:Eve Graham

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Eve Graham. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130806072405/http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk:80/news/real-life/new-seekers-star-eve-graham-1097344 to http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/real-life/new-seekers-star-eve-graham-1097344

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:37, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Age

In the United States, today is 20 April 2018, and Eve Graham is already 75, but the age showing is 74. Why? 107.185.97.165 (talk) 05:46, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Could be one of several reasons. Most likely is your cache needs purging. (On the "page" menu at top right of page next to the "Search Wikipedia" box, 2nd-to-bottom item on that menu is "Purge cache". Pdfpdf (talk) 13:32, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

No. Just to make sure, I purged the cache and cookies again, but Eve Graham's age afterwards still shows as 74.107.185.97.165 (talk) 00:40, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. It shows 75 for me. I'm afraid I don't know. Pdfpdf (talk) 02:08, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Still shows 74 for me, on my laptop, and also yesterday for my friend's phone.107.185.97.165 (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

I changed y to yes, and the problem disappeared. Do you see the correct age also?107.185.97.165 (talk) 02:22, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

How strange. I've been using df=y for about 10 years without any problems. In Ms Graham's case at the moment, df=y and df=yes both give the same result for me. I'm puzzled as to why you see different results. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 02:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Again, my friend's phone also showed 74 before I changed y to yes. I won't be able to ask my friend what his phone shows now because he is currently occupied with more important matters.107.185.97.165 (talk) 13:05, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

It's using {{Birth date and age}}. The documentation for that template (click on the link) says you can use either df=y or df=yes, and implies they give the same answer. So it looks like there's a bug in the template. That template uses {{Age}} to calculate the age, and the Age template doesn't use the df= parameter. So again, it looks like there's a bug in the Birth date and age template. It needs a template expert to sort it out. (I'm not a template expert.) Pdfpdf (talk) 15:53, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

We are looking for a template expert. We think we've found a bug in {{Birth date and age}} in the use of the df= parameter. df=yes seems to work; df=y seems to give different answers for the age for different users (i.e. user:107.185.97.165 gets a different (wrong) answer for df=y, and the correct answer for df=yes, whereas user:pdfpdf gets the same correct answer for both df=y and df=yes.) Pdfpdf (talk) 15:53, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Try the last editor user:Johnuniq - it's been changed from a template script to a module on the 31st March. Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 16:47, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

most likely by changing |df=y to |df=yes you forced the server to rebuild the page. I don't think there is any bug in the page/module. Frietjes (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

I concur. Definitely a cache issue and not a template one. Sometimes the only effective way to purge the cache is to make a null edit (i.e. the PURGE function doesn't work). Primefac (talk) 17:55, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

As noted, the reason that 107.185.97.165 saw age 74 was that the server sent a cached copy of the HTML for the page. A quick check in the future is to edit the page in a new tab and show preview without changing anything. The preview is generated from scratch (no cache). That would have shown age 75. Clicking Publish to save the page (without making any changes) would have cleared the cache forcing it to show age 75 for everyone. A sanity check is to simply try both options and observe that they give the same result:

• {{Birth date and age|1943|4|19}} → (1943-04-19) April 19, 1943
• {{Birth date and age|1943|4|19|df=y}} → (1943-04-19) 19 April 1943
• {{Birth date and age|1943|4|19|df=yes}} → (1943-04-19) 19 April 1943

Another problem is that wikitext uses UTC so the age might be wrong for a short period for someone expecting the article to match their local timezone. Johnuniq (talk) 23:52, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks to all for your help. Pdfpdf (talk) 02:10, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

The same problem existed for Ann Peebles, before I changed y to yes at the corresponding location there today. So I would say that Wikipedia probably has numerous such problems.107.185.97.165 (talk) 05:45, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

(Ann Peebles' birthday is April 27). Yes there's a problem, but the problem is that you need to purge your cache while you are on the page, and the purge needs to work. As explained above, in and of itself, changing df=y to df=yes is not what's fixing the problem. What's fixing the problem is making any change to the page, then saving the page, which is then causing the cache to be purged. Yes, wikipedia does have cache purging problems. No, df=y vs df=yes is not the problem. Pdfpdf (talk) 08:25, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

(A more annoying example of caching problems: Many photographs uploaded to wikipedia commons have a large expanse of bitumen in the foreground. When you crop that out, the cropped photo has new dimensions, but the old photo is still cached, so until the cache gets purged, you see the old photo squashed into the new dimensions. Pdfpdf (talk) 08:25, 28 April 2018 (UTC))