Talk:Externalization (migration)
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Theleekycauldron in topic Did you know nomination
 | A fact from Externalization (migration) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 March 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Did you know nomination
edit- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:21, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
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... that the death of Alan Kurdi is an example of the system of non-arrival of refugees "working as designed"?Source: FitzGerald 2019, pp. 2, 4- ALT1:
... that the European Union has paid the Libyan Coast Guard $455 million to repel migrants despite its known involvement in human trafficking, slavery, and torture?Source: Multiple, see article - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Undercommons
- ALT1:
Created by Buidhe (talk). Self-nominated at 12:59, 15 February 2022 (UTC).
Substantial article on good sources, no copyvio obvious. I learned a lot. Much of it, including the original hook, is based on FitzGerald, whose article is sadly under-developed. I am reluctant to pass a hook such as the original that is easily misunderstood by a quote out of context. I also think that "prevent asylum seekers from reaching their borders" would be clearer than current the pipe in the hook. - ALT1: Is the coast guard involved, not the country? - In the article: the EU is not a country. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Gerda, thanks for the review. For ALT0, I don't consider the hook to be quoting out of context, since FitzGerald states: "Had Alan Kurdi and his family reached Kos, they stood a good chance of being granted asylum in Europe. Unfortunately for them, a system created to keep most refugees from reaching safety in the rich democracies of the Global North worked as designed." FitzGerald is not the only source that supports this statement; this 2017 paper discusses Kurdi's death and states, "The main reason for unnecessary deaths [including Kurdi's] is the lack of legal avenues to the EU territory", namely because of visa restrictions. If the article cites FitzGerald more than any other source (it's just over 1/3 of citations), that's because FitzGerald has written the best and most comprehensive book on this topic. However, I'm fine if ALT1 is preferred.
- I removed any statement in the article that might imply that the EU is a country. The article, and the Kalpouzos source, state that the Libyan coast guard specifically is responsible for the mentioned atrocities. However, many other entities in Libya, such as armed groups, detention centers, etc. are also responsible for serious abuses. (t · c) buidhe 14:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for explaining, - I still believe ALT1 is less ambiguous. ref #48 says "The EU Charter of fundamental rights specifically protects against the type of violations faced by migrants returned by the Libyan coast guard to Libya, namely torture (Art. 4), slavery (Art. 5.1.) and refoulement (Arts. 18, 19)." - for my understanding that means, when returned by the Coast Guard, migrants face these atrocities, but I don't see how the Coast Guard is involved in slavery, immediately, I mean. I guess you'll find a way to word that, that unsuccessful migrants face atrocities in Libya. A link to the Coast Guard would help. (It's not a coast guard.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
- How about ALT1b: ... that to repel migrants, the European Union has paid hundreds of millions of euros to Libyan partners known to be involved in human trafficking, slavery, and torture?
That's directly supported by Kalpouzos who says, "In the context of the North Africa migration route, the EU and specific states, most significantly Italy, have struck similar agreements with the government of Libya, but also with sub-state actors such as the Libyan Coast Guard, which are known to be engaging in trafficking, slavery, torture, and other human rights violations." As for coast guards, it depends on the country what the main activity of the coast guard is (in many cases, it is combatting the smuggling of goods or deterring migration). (t · c) buidhe 15:36, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps it's my lack of English, - I still don't see the Coast Guard directly involved in slavery (how?). At this point, I approve ALT1b without digging deeper, - it's general enough to please me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:53, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
- How about ALT1b: ... that to repel migrants, the European Union has paid hundreds of millions of euros to Libyan partners known to be involved in human trafficking, slavery, and torture?
- Thank you for explaining, - I still believe ALT1 is less ambiguous. ref #48 says "The EU Charter of fundamental rights specifically protects against the type of violations faced by migrants returned by the Libyan coast guard to Libya, namely torture (Art. 4), slavery (Art. 5.1.) and refoulement (Arts. 18, 19)." - for my understanding that means, when returned by the Coast Guard, migrants face these atrocities, but I don't see how the Coast Guard is involved in slavery, immediately, I mean. I guess you'll find a way to word that, that unsuccessful migrants face atrocities in Libya. A link to the Coast Guard would help. (It's not a coast guard.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
