Talk:Félix Sánchez (hurdler)

First sentence

The lead sentence sounds like he's an ethnic American competing for the Dominican Republic, despite the fact his ethnicity is Dominican and he decided to compete for the Dominican Republic because of the ethnicity of his family. Seems like sneaky American bias is used to describe the personality.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I previously reverted your change here. Lets look at the facts and see how we can best present them. He was born in New York City=USA. He went to school and started track and field at University City High School in San Diego=USA. He went to college at USC=USA. He STILL lives in San Diego=USA. When he reached the level of international competition, he could have thrown his chances of going to the Olympics into the American pool, where he would have had to race multiple rounds with a bunch of other athletes on very close par to his ability n the United States Olympic Trials (track and field) or USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships. Anything could go wrong and he doesn't go to the Olympics or IAAF World Championships. Or he could use his parents heritage to allow him a direct path to the Olympics. Given the opportunity, he took the easy way out, some would regard that as the smart way out. No need to waste energy getting to the big meet when he was clearly, easily the best the Dominican Republic had to offer. On the Olympic stage he is 1 for 3, having been beaten by among others Angelo Taylor for the gold medal twice. He would have had to face the likes of Taylor in each of those other Olympic Trials just to get there. He beat Taylor straight up in the 04 semi-final before winning the gold. And frankly from 01-04, Sanchez was the man to beat worldwide. His preliminary road to get to the big races just was not as rocky. His association with the Dominican Republic has been good for both. He has elevated the level of others around him--they had a good squad that challenged for the World Indoor Championships. He brought Alvin Harrison along from the USA to help. There is obviously a lot more that can be written here, I just haven't taken the time to source it all out. Trackinfo (talk) 22:51, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

You're referring to something that doesn't relate directly to his ethnicity and nationality. Maybe he's Dominican and American by nationality, but his ethnicity is Dominican. Thus, using something that means he's American competing for the Dominican Republic is a pure American bias.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

P.S. American competing for other country will happen if Bershawn Jackson or Angelo Taylor decides to compete under different flag.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Actually, his ethnicity is presumably some mixture of West African and Spanish. The only people of "Dominican ethnicity" would be the indigenous people of that part of Hispaniola, who are no longer around. Rather than get into silly racial arguments, let's just acknowledge that he's a Dominican-American. 71.205.174.204 (talk) 02:32, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Nowhere in the article, now or before, does it mention his ethnicity. Frankly it is a bit misleading in saying he is from New York City (where he was born), when San Diego seems to have been his home essentially since high school and throughout his career. I think it is clear the Dominical Republic is the birthplace of his parents and that he was allowed to use that status in order to choose to compete for that country. Feel free to work that into the lede, tell the whole story. We are seeking accuracy not jingoism here. Trackinfo (talk) 08:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I feel free every time and already did it, but you were the one who reverted my edit in the lede. Simple proof for the irrelevancy of his American citizenship and place of birth is the fact he's become notable after having won a gold at the 2001 World Championships for the Dominican Republic. There are thousands of athlets competing in different athletics events, and we, therefore, have several criteria of the sufficient notability for an athlete to have a WP article. None of these criteria apply for Félix Sánchez as a notable enough athlete before his victory at the 2001 World Championships, and his biography before this major success is simply not sufficient alone to uphold the article. Similar examples in athletics include Sanya Richards-Ross or Maryam Yusuf Jamal.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

We have all sorts of national representation situations in track and field, probably other sports, but I do spend most of my time in track and field. As a responsible wikipedian, we should tell the complete story, not omit important facts for purpose. You mention Sanya Richards-Ross. She was born in Jamaica, left there at age 12 and made her entire career representing the USA. Meb Keflezighi the same sort of story from Eretria. Tomás Valdemar Hintnaus was born in Brazil to Czechoslovakian parents from West Germany, came to the USA at age 2, competed for the USA, got upset with the USA and changed to compete for Brazil. How complicated can you get? Bernard Lagat or as you mentioned Maryam Yusuf Jamal had competed for another country (Kenya and Ethiopia respectively) and changed citizenship to another country and competed for that other country (USA and Bahrain). We document many of those situations in List of eligibility transfers in athletics when they change countries officially. Henry Andrade matches Sánchez in the same sense that he is American born, schooled, trained--he even competed internationally as an American and won an American Football National Championship, but chose to use his parents ancestry to compete for the Cape Verde Islands in order to get into the Olympics when it was obvious he would have to be lucky to make an American team. Marion Jones could have competed for Belize and started her international career in high school, but chose to compete for the USA, to later bring down the American reputation with her PED use. Sánchez was good enough he should have made an American team had he tried. He chose to compete for the Dominican Republic. There is no favoritism, people come and go. We tell the story. Trackinfo (talk) 22:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

None of the criteria listed in WP:NTRACK apply for all of the mentioned athletes again, except for Bernard Lagat who has become notable by representing Kenya and it is already mentioned in the lede of the article. You also seem to have chosen not the right examples or some that set a clear base to consider Sánchez a Dominican athlete in the lede. Maryam Yusuf Jamal represented Ethiopia with no important success that under WP:NTRACK could have earned her a sufficient notability for a WP article. We have the same situation with Keflezighi, Richards and Jones. There is nothing that sets Sánchez apart from these athletes in the way that they all were born in one country and have afterwards become notable by earning their first success while competing for another country. Do we really need to mention that Richards and Keflezighi are athletes from Kingston and Asmara respectively competing for the United States, or we need to change the lede of all similar athletes to document the place of birth of the person? Even if you tell the full story for his early years, it won't change anything to his notability and the wording in the lede. I will therefore again change the lede in a proper way to look like in the articles that you're referring to above, since the stories in most of them are very similar to this one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

P.S. If you don't agree entirely with considering him only a Dominican athlete, we can change the lede to say "American-born Dominican". But then we must change the lede of all other articles which acquires too much work.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:40, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

(undent) I have altered the lead. I think it is fine to detail his American upbringing in the first few sections – it is not essential information for the first paragraph. SFB 17:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. Trackinfo (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

He is a Dominican-American who competes for the Dominican Republic. That is the most accurate description of his status. I've rewritten the opening sentence to state this. 71.205.174.204 (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

• Citizenship is essential information for the first paragraph of any biography article per Wiki MOS. If it's not there, there will be an endless round of edits to add it. Debatable whether it should be Dominican-American or just American, but it needs to at least establish American citizenship. Softlavender (talk) 03:48, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

43-race winning streak: needs citation which precedes July 1012

Someone added a citation for this but it's from August 6, 2012, and apparently copied the information straight from Wikipedia. We need a citation that precedes that for accuracy. Softlavender (talk) 03:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Done but I can't find anything to show he is 'The Dictator'. Suspect he isn't known by that nickname.--Egghead06 (talk) 07:40, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Did you find citation for the other nicknames? Softlavender (talk) 07:40, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

By the way, the "rank outsider" and "indifferent form" also need a citation which precedes the entry of those phrases into this Wikipedia article (that is, before August 6th). Softlavender (talk) 08:02, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 12 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. The hurdler to Félix Sánchez (hurdler) per arguments below. The football manager to Félix Sánchez (football manager), as I realised that is the correct term, not footballer manager. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 16:08, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

---

• Félix Sánchez → Félix Sánchez (athlete)
• Félix Sánchez Bas → Félix Sánchez (footballer manager)
• Félix Sánchez (disambiguation) → Félix Sánchez

– No WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and WP:COMMONNAME for all persons listed is just "Félix Sánchez" without maternal surname. Disambiguate as per WP:NCSP, and DAB at base name. Page view stats here: [[1]] Ortizesp (talk) 00:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support 1st and 3rd, the manager gets 40,978 compared with only 14,388 for the athlete, no comment on 2nd per WP:NATURAL. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:22, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:30, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom, no PRIMARYTOPIC. GiantSnowman 18:32, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Conditional support on the basis that the first article is moved to Félix Sánchez (hurdler) because "(athlete)" does not fully disambiguate the subject from Félix Sánchez (baseball). This is the general approach for athletics biographies with multiple sportspeople of the same name. FYI @Ortizesp: SFB 23:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Elspamo4 (talk) 13:10, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support, but prefer "hurdler" to "athlete". All sportspeople are athletes. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.