Talk:Fairchild Channel F

Image size

Isn't that second blue picture a bit big? I think most in-text pictures are 250 pixels across. Why not this one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.219.8.18 (talk • contribs) 09:23, 5 December 2004 (UTC)

"Cost"

Is that part about cost in the first paragraph referring to the retail price? If so, it should be changed. Using 'cost' gives the sentence a very different meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.173.15 (talk • contribs) 00:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Mid importance

First programmable cartridge console? Does this count, or should I kick it down to low? Hbdragon88 06:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly not a "marquee" system (i.e., the 2600, the NES, the Genesis and SNES), but I think it's equally as important as the Odyssey^2, the MicroVision, and the Virtua Boy - and certainly more important than the game.com :-D It has a substantial section in The Next Quarter, which was a comprehensive 25 year retrospective of videogames. As such, it's a pretty important landmark in the history of video game consoles, even if the years haven't exactly been kind to it. Forgive me for not digging up an ISBN on that, it should be easy to find on Amazon.com, if you're so inclined. --Action Jackson IV 01:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

DISCONTINUED

THE YEAR IT WAS DISCONTINUED SHOULD BE LISTED ON ITS 'CARD' NEAR THE TOP RIGHT OF THE PAGE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.17.249 (talk) 04:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Tense

The text is in two tenses. Mixing between present and past. It is utterly confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.171.15.35 (talk • contribs) 23:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fairchild logo.gif

Image:Fairchild logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

First home console with color output!

If anybody cares to revise the paragraph on the graphical capabilities, please mention that. 84.119.95.11 (talk) 10:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That won't be happening, as it's not true. Atari's home PONG (1975) was also in color. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 14:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Market Impact

This whole section does not have one single source, Channel F was indeed a pioneering system, but this is written in a bias perspective. I can't find anything that shows that the Channel F cause Atari to do this. I will leave this for 5 days to see if anyone can find any original sources, otherwise I believe this needs to be deleted. TheKingsTable (talk) 02:46, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Jerry Lawson's contribution?

The first two paragraphs under "The Console" are not cited. So, I did some research on the Channel F and the story of its development is a bit more complicated. It seems a company called ALPEX inveted the prototype that was bought by Fairchild and converted to use their chips. The final product was created by a team of engineers/designers with a lot of patents going to people other than Jerry Lawson. What do you think? Source- http://www.fastcompany.com/3040889/the-untold-story-of-the-invention-of-the-game-cartridge — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.126.193.15 (talk) 19:06, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Not all previous machines required a human opponent

The article claims that "All previous machines required a human opponent". This is simply not true. The PC-50x systems were available from the mid 1970s (see Italian Wikipedia) and had a computer opponent for the "Submarine" game (see the instructions for the game). It wasn't advanced by any means, but it was a computer opponent. -- 82.2.190.177 (talk) 19:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

The Submarine cartridge was however not released until December 31:st 1977 according to this information This one says the chip AY-3-8605 was released 1978: — Preceding unsigned comment added by E5frog (talk • contribs) 15:09, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

References

Sales numbers?

In this quote from a book referenced as [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Channel_F#cite_note-jones123-1 It says "By this point..." at what point I don't know but it seems it doesn't present the total sales numbers. It says 350,000 here: https://www.fastcompany.com/3040889/the-untold-story-of-the-invention-of-the-game-cartridge Don't know where the numbers come from but he seems to be very informed about other things, the number is also presented as "Under Fairchild’s stewardship" which probably not includes sales by Zircon. E5frog (talk) 15:28, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Sold in Japan ?

Really? Is there any proof? A photo circulates in the net showing a setup with a manual that looks like it could be from Japan - but this could also be a fake. And, where does the release date come from? Again, no proof for that. Best regards, Schnurrikowski (talk) 07:39, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey... It's difficult when you're not speaking Japanese, I have a few images from Japanese private sellers. Open manual instruction book as well as front of it and instruction booklets 1,3 and 12. Newspaper advert together with ELETONE 2000 stereo equipment, which is the only character except for prices I understand in that image. Back of videocart 4 with the Japanese label (only difference is box back label and a custom instruction booklet). A set with 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 12 but only 1 and 12 has clearly visible Japanese instruction booklets and the back of boxes isn't shown. I have the mentioned photo with the setup. Then an open box showing a system with the back of #1 box with the Japanese label and front of #12 box, Japanese instruction booklet for #2 is shown on top in a plastic wrapper with other booklets. Then a complete setup much like the popular photo together with a TV showing hockey and five loose carts and five Japanese instruction booklets #1, 2, 4, 8, 9 as well as photos of inside instruction booklets of #1, 9 and 12.

I was offered one once but I couldn't afford it at the time and the seller wasn't really willing to ship to Sweden. It's not easy running google translate and trying to navigate on Japanese sales pages. Try googling for Channel F with Japanese characters... Looks like this in the mentioned newspaper ad: チャンネル F I could upload the images somewhere, any ideas?

You can of course question everything, is anything real? How much proof is needed before Wikipedia editors are content? E5frog (talk) 16:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/henlyh/status/951183441600512001 E5frog (talk) 18:21, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint with Japanese symbols :o) I think I could verify the data in a japanese blog. Best regards, Schnurrikowski (talk) 12:06, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Democart and Release Date sources for most (or all) Videocarts

I'd like to point out that I just removed the Democart from the list of games because it was listed as "released in 1976" and sourced by a book that I happen to have and the source does not support the claim.

In fact, the book makes it very clear the Democart was unreleased, only referencing that the software itself was programmed as early as 1976, but that is NOT its release date.

I should also point out that a lot of the information contained in the book is itself unsourced, and some of it is somewhat questionable, so I'd ask anyone who wishes to use that book as a source to also substantiate it with additional sources. The book alone should not be taken as gospel.

Regardless, when carts were produced to house this software, for some reason, Fairchild decided to give it a copyright of 1977. This is consistent with the rumor that the Democart was actually produced after the console launched because early adopters complained about not understanding how it all worked. However, being a rumor, it should not be added to the Wikipedia article.

As a source, I will leave the following link:

http://www.fndcollectables.com/CHANNEL_F_INFO/U_S_/Carts_Boxs_Labels/DEMOCART_1___2/democart_1___2.html

This shows pictures of the boxes and labels of actual real cartridges. It may help in sourcing the actual release dates of all Videocarts, including the unreleased ones. Raven-14 (talk) 01:05, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Adding this information, to minimize confusion for other Wikipedia editors. Yes, cartridges and boxes for the Democart were PRODUCED. However, they were never RELEASED. That is why they were removed from the "Released" list of games.

Evidence of this can be found on the book "Before the Crash: Early Video Game History, by Mark Wolf, published in 2012, through Wayne State University Press, where the author clearly states that the Democart was produced but never released.

If you think you can prove the author wrong, please, find a reliable source that proves it was released, and not just produced. Until then, this is the best source we have. Hope this clears things up. Thank you.

Raven-14 (talk) 05:48, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Tom Kamifuji

According to the article he is a "nationally known artist", yet there is no wikipedia article, and info on the web is not exactly overabundant. i collect some links here, for a future project, a Tom Kamifuji article. This is only tangentially related to the article, but this is Tom's only mention in an article, so i feel like it fits best here.

• Mike Cassidy (2008) Marketing pioneer recalls early days of Intel and Apple
• Aiga Design Archive
• invaluable Auction website
• Kristen Gallerneaux (2021) The F stands for Fun, Henry Ford Museum if Innovation
• Benj Edwards (2015) The Untold Story Of The Invention Of The Game Cartridge, FastCompany
• DJ Food (2018) 7Up – the UnCola posters
• More 7up ads on flickr
• Lisa Hix (2016) An Un-Conventional Thirst: Collecting 7Up's Most Beautiful, Hallucinatory Billboards
• Graphis Annual 59 (contains a Kaiser Aluminum ad by Kamifuji)
• Jan Rindfleisch (2014/2017) Roots and Offshoots - The Blossoming of Silicon Valley's Arts Community
• Exhibition, but not sure if recent or in 1983..?
• Tom Kamifuji @ MutualArt
• Poster for ArtExpo1981
• Discussion of an Apple poster Kamifuji made

Eight degrees of feeedom?

The History section states that the controllers had eight degrees of freedom. This claim seems dubious. The controller seems to allow a 2-axis joystick (x/y) which can also be twisted, and then slid in and out. That would seem to be 4 degrees of freedom at most. Can we get a reference to back up this claim that the controllers had eight degrees of freedom? A decade or so later companies like Spaceball (later Spacetech) sold 6-degree-of-freedom controllers (twist around x, twist around y, twist around z, slide x, slide y, slide z). But 8? In 1976? And if so, again, which degrees? How do we get to 8? 98.217.251.15 (talk) 20:53, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hold Button

The function of the Hold Button gets mentioned in the last paragraph on Design and then again two paragraphs later in the centre paragraph of Controllers. I'm not sure what it's doing in there but it's also the one with the better explanation. Since I doubt we need both, which would be better kept? CamphorNoodles (talk) 08:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Clones

If we're mentioning clones by brand and name at all, use the correct names and all known brands, they are all easily searchable and not a secret hidden in some book you have to buy to check if it's proper information.

When mentioning the European clones the correct names are:
Luxor TV-Datorspel Video Entertainment Fairchild(on box), Luxor Video Entertainment (on console and PSU) Sweden (1977)
Among users it was called "Luxor Video Entertainment System", I currently have no proof of it being the official name.
https://channelf.se/veswiki/images/a/a5/Luxor_Service_Manual_1909574.pdf
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653257.jpg
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653228.jpg

Luxor Video Entertainment Computer (on console) or Luxor TV-Datorspel Video Entertainment (on box), Sweden (1978)
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653298.jpg
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653351.jpg
Have service manual from May 1980 (T5E-1) - so this version may have involved Zircon in some way.
https://channelf.se/veswiki/images/d/dc/Service_Manual%2C_May_1980%2C_type_1909583%2C_66_79583-01%2C_T5E-1_600dpi_unfold.pdf

SABA Videoplay (on box and console), Germany
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653091.jpg

SABA Videoplay 2, Germany (on box and only bottom of console)
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248652873.jpg
https://www.savegames.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Saba-Videoplay-2-System-Fairchild-b.jpg
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248653114.jpg

Nordmende Color TelePlay μP(on console and box), Germany (1978)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Nordmende_COLOR_TelePlay.jpg/800px-Nordmende_COLOR_TelePlay.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChannelF/comments/23zmuo/nordmende_teleplay_german_clone/

ITT Telematch-Processor (box) Tele-Match Processor (console), Germany
https://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/images/consoles/itt/fairchild-channel-f//itt-telematch-processor-fairchild-channel-f16.jpg
https://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/images/consoles/itt/fairchild-channel-f//itt-telematch-processor-fairchild-channel-f05.jpg

Adman Grandstand Video Entertainment Computer (on console and box), United Kingdom
https://retro-computing.org/exhibit-photos/201/lg__MG_2716.jpg
https://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/images/1970s/76_Fairchild_Channel_F/Grandstand_VEC_CL-02.jpg

Barco Challenger, Belgium
https://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/images/1970s/76_Fairchild_Channel_F/Models_78_Barco_Challenger.jpg
https://www.kupujemprodajem.com/kompjuteri-desktop/retro-kompjuteri/fairchild-channel-f-console-viedo-entertainment-rezervisano/oglas/170363424
— Preceding unsigned comment added by E5frog (talk • contribs) 10:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Emerson (also under Dumont brand) Videoplay System, Italy.
https://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/images/1970s/76_Fairchild_Channel_F/Models_78_DuMont_Channel_F.jpg
https://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/images/1970s/76_Fairchild_Channel_F/Models_78_Emerson_Channel_F.jpg
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248654202.jpg
https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_07_2009/post-10242-1248654298.jpg

This was my old site, I didn't have the correct information at the time. Right at this moment it is cited on this page - with the wrong information: http://w5.nuinternet.com/s660100106/channelf.mania.html
That site is now here: https://channelf.se/channelf.mania.html and I have left it as it was for history and started a new site here: https://channelf.se/gallery/index.html
With the main purpose of browsing through the different variations, I haven't written out the full names there - for space reasons.

The name on the product counts, not what someone has written on their webpage 20-50 years later. E5frog (talk) 09:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

• @E5frog: Almost all of the links you posted are not sources. Those are just images. Jon698 (talk) 16:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

  Yes they are just images, I don't know how to post the physical objects as they would indeed be hard to dismiss. As you're interested in proper facts - how do I present the information in an acceptable way? Should I publish a picture book? E5frog (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

  If you do get a book about old video game console clones published we might be able to use that, especially if some of the sources used here have inaccurate information. In the meantime finding another source in an existing book or magazine or something would be helpful. The Channel F is already a bit of an obscure console though and clones are even moreso, so it might be hard to find a reliable source on them. Unfortunately I don't really know what sources for this system would be counted as "reliable" enough for Wikipedia, I understand their reasoning though I agree it can be frustrating when it comes to more obscure things. Ringtail Raider (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Published disinformation

Wolf (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fairchild_Channel_F#CITEREFWolf2012) has published incorrect information that is cited in this article. Zircon was not responsible for licensing products when they took over in 1979, several (all?) European brands popped up in 1977 and 1978. Luxor for example printed their instructions and manuals in Motala in 1977 and 1978, their second revision T4E-2 of their Service Manual for the first version console was released in August 1978.
https://channelf.se/veswiki/images/a/a5/Luxor_Service_Manual_1909574.pdf
There was also publications in magazine(s) at the time. Nordmende is featured in their catalaogue from 1978. SABA also has magazine ads/tests, don't have these at hand atm.

Where should magazine scans be uploaded to support the proper facts instead of what Wolf made up/heard wrong/guessed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by E5frog (talk • contribs) 11:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

If you have a full scan the Internet Archive is a good place to upload. If it's just a few pages I'm not sure, though as long as you've got the author, publisher, and page info it should be good. Ringtail Raider (talk) 20:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)