Talk:Far-right politics in Ukraine

Copyright issues

The article length is overblown because of many long quotes in citations. From a copyright perspective, have we crossed a line to copyright infringement yet or are we save? --SonicY (talk) 13:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I am not seeing it, no. Slatersteven (talk) 13:45, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Mass removal of content and sources

So many parts and sources were removed in a single day.[1] I would like to ask other colleagues if you would agree to implement a revert to the stable version and possibly discuss each part to agree to its removal. Mhorg (talk) 18:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The only content removed was WP:OR and WP:SYNTH either not sourced, unrelated to the article subject or sourced to youtube, donbass.comments.ua, focus.ua and the Sun. Much more interesting are the added academic journals [2], updates [3], and context. The article still uses relatively poor sourcing such as opinion pieces in The Nation and isolated incidents mentioned only by NGOs but at least some improvements were made. --SonicY (talk) 21:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

You removed sources such as Radio Free Europe and The Forward, there is no explanation for this mass removal. Mhorg (talk) 12:09, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

This goes back that far? I think you need to make a case. Slatersteven (talk) 12:13, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Please, can you specify which part you removed seems problematic to you? Mhorg (talk) 12:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Golinkin. Manyareasexpert (talk) 20:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

There is nothing controversial in what Golinkin says.[4] Please specify the part of the text you find problematic. And what about the article of Christopher Miller for Radio Free Europe?[5] Why was it removed? Mhorg (talk) 21:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Those are not reliable by your reliability standards - McCallum is not an expert, only two pubblications [6] Manyareasexpert (talk) 07:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

You want to use McCallum as a source for controversial statements (is this McCallum?[7] An account with 900 followers and a NAFO dog in the image profile?). There is nothing controversial here, on the contrary, it is all confirmed by other sources. Moreover, Golinkin is quoted by many reliable sources.[8]

Since there is nothing to object to about Christopher Miller, I restore that part. Mhorg (talk) 09:37, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Christopher Miller
He is also unreliable by your standards. McCallum's statements are not controversial while Golinkin's are. McCallum is quoted by reliable sources, those quoting Golinkin are not reliable by your standards. Manyareasexpert (talk) 09:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

May I also add that Manyareasexpert was maybe using an erroneous definition of reliability as suggested by this topic.

@Mhorg: Are you still unsatisfied with the removals? Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:49, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

The article was made worse. If you want to restore the deleted parts, I agree with you. Mhorg (talk) 14:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Read WP:ONUS, it is down to those who want inclusion to argue for it. Slatersteven (talk) 10:06, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Its been a few months, and this has now been reopened. every participant needs to be alerted. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

At this stage (and because of this) an RFC is needed, lets get more eyes on this. Slatersteven (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

That would be reasonable. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Stepan Bandera is relevant to the page

The role of Stepan Bandera in public opinion and politics in Ukraine should be covered in this article. I'm talking about covering his relevance with WP:DUE weight of course. Otherwise, this article would be incomplete or potentially disingenuous. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:25, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Why? Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

You probably know. Because he's viewed by many as a national hero and there's also commemoration of Stepan Bandera. These strong symbols and their influence in far-right politics/public are relevant. The analysis section of this page roughly demonstrates this. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:36, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see you put your hands here too [9]... Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

This is not about me, and as we do not even mention his "nation" the Ukrainian National Committee, why Bandera? Slatersteven (talk) 13:44, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean? Bandera is a much more famous and notable name than what I think you are talking about, the Ukrainian National Committee. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I have had my say, but none of your arguments have convinced me he is particularly notable as a far-right figure in Ukraine. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

"In today’s Ukraine, Bandera is viewed positively by between 50% and 74% of citizens, depending on the survey"[10] Yes, he is an important far-right figure in Ukraine. And if I remember correctly, there was also a section he spoke about which was removed. I agree with restoring it. Mhorg (talk) 14:47, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

👍 Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:23, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

That seems like a good reliable article to add new/fresh citations. Would you agree Slatersteven? I'm thinking like: if the content is new, then an RfC wouldn't need to be created. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

It is one article, a year old (the poll two years old) So at best we could say "according to..in 2022". Nor does it seem to say he is uniquely highly regarded, just that he is positively regarded I also note this is up as a result of the war, and that is reflective not of far-right politics but anti-Russian sentiment, now quite the same thing. I also see other names mentioned as well. So am unsure if this says Badera enjoys a special place in Ukraine's far-right politics. Slatersteven (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

The source is not related to this page. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 20:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

We'll see. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 02:06, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

What? What does this mean? Slatersteven (talk) 11:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Investigate if it's related or not, with my own eyes, when I put in the time though. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

So do not ask me again, if you convince me I will tell you, rather than repeat what I am about to say "we need sources that say his far-right policies is what makes him extra special to Ukrainians" (or some such). Slatersteven (talk) 15:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

You're exhausting to interact with. It Takes two seconds to piece these together. Two more to provide a source.

Source showing Ukrainians support Bandera, a far right Nazi figure.

https://www.dw.com/en/stepan-bandera-ukrainian-hero-or-nazi-collaborator/a-61842720 2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 (talk) 09:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

a far right Nazi figure
— User:2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 09:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Not in source. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

That's a trivial argument. The Bandera page itself says in the first sentence that he's a far right leader. If you really prefer, the reference from the other wiki article could also be cited here. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Stepan bandera far right leader

You're exhausting to interact with. T Takes two seconds to piece these togetber. Two more to provide a source.

Source showing Ukrainians support Bandera, a far right Nazi figure.

https://www.dw.com/en/stepan-bandera-ukrainian-hero-or-nazi-collaborator/a-61842720

urce. 2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 (talk) 09:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

See above. Slatersteven (talk) 10:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)