Talk:Federal Pretzel Baking Company

Bella Vista?

Is this bakery in Bella Vista? It is too far south, but I am unsure what to call 6th and Federal. The neighborhood name is needed for a link to the Federal Pretzel Baking Company. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Considerable work needed

The vast majority of this article is unsourced. Clearly, we need more independent reliable sources.

Additionally, the material includes lots of bias and puffery. A source that detailed Federal keeping their recipe secret was used to source the bombastic claim "The threefold key to success reported in 80 years of operation by the general media was Federal Baking's secret recipe". A headline reading "South Philly's First Family Of Pretzels" was used to claim that the family was often referred to as such.

I'm going to be pecking away at this off and on. Comments? - SummerPhD (talk) 15:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Copy-editing queries

Infobox

In the infobox, the year founded appears to be incorrect. Should it read 1922?

Lead

The lead is very short (only one sentence). Some additional information could be added, such as the names of the people who founded it, the year it was founded, and the impact it had on the city of Philadelphia.

History

1922

In the first sentence the word “vitalian” appears. It has a wikilink applied to it for the Wikipedia article for Pope Vitalian. It’s unclear how this word is meant to be interpreted in this sentence. Is it a typo for “Italian”? I have left it untouched as I do not want to inadvertently change the meaning of the sentence. If it is a typo for “Italian”, it can safely be deleted. If it needs to stay because it provides important information about the kind of bakery this was, additional information needs to be provided.

1947

The date for this section does not appear to be accurate. Was the company not founded in 1922? I have edited the sentence in this section for clarity, but the date needs to be resolved.

1963

This entry mentions two large pretzels that were record-setting. The second pretzel is half the weight of the first one, so how is the record repeated? Shouldn’t this second one weigh even more? Is the second pretzel the largest pretzel to ever appear in a Hollywood film?

1978

The compound adjective “mass-machine-produced” may need to be altered, depending on its intended meaning. The way it reads now, it’s saying that the first soft pretzel produced with a large number of machines “was extruded at 7 per second…”. I don’t believe this is the intended meaning, and recommend the following revision:

Possible revision (but only if the facts are true): “First mass machine-produced soft pretzels were extruded at 7 per second…”

1990

The last sentence in this entry needs to be revised for clarity. The last part is ambiguous and can be read two ways. Here are two possible revisions:

Possible revision 1 (but only if the facts are true): “They introduced their own modernized recipe that was less crusty and not as soft as the original recipe.”

Possible revision 2 (but only if the facts are true): “They introduced their own modernized recipe that was softer and less crusty."

1992

• The name “Norma Conley” appears in the first sentence of this entry, but in the previous entry there appears the name “Norma Nacchio-Conley”. Is this the same person? Does the word “partner” mean “business partner”?

• The first sentence of this entry may also need to be revised for clarity.

Possible revision (but only if the facts are true): "The Pretzel Museum was opened in Philadelphia by members of the Nacchio family (and partner Norma Conley) to highlight the city’s preference for Federal Pretzel Baking Company's distinctly shaped pretzels."

• There is an intersection mentioned that needs to be revised for clarity:

Possible revision (but only if the facts are true): “…then at 3rd and Market next to Ben Franklin’s historic house,…”

It was a pleasure to work on this article. If you need to get in touch with me, please leave a message on my talk page. Regards David Thibault (talk) 00:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Contraindications still need clarification.

Was the company founded in the 1920s by the Nacchio parents and son, or in 1947 by the son and his 3 brothers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Worldbook1967 (talk • contribs) 02:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Adding Sources was critical comment by SummerPhD and when new digital source material is now available from paper copies and linked - the criticism is that they are not needed for support

This subject is iconic to many Philadelphian's of the era. That "feeling" of significance to daily culture and it's effect on lifestyles requires documenting that important aspect. The reversal of wiki editor who objects seem not in keeping with "An encyclopedia is, by its nature, a neutrally written summary of existing mainstream knowledge about a topic." (a wiki guideline on referencing quote)-thereby- providing multiple references to readers (both new & old) by including the recently digitized newspapers of Philadelphia is material that recreates the "mainstream knowledge" that is no longer readily available Undid revision 942659768 by SummerPhDv2.0 (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pretzelfactory (talk • contribs) 21:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Reasonable addition of source based in Philadelphia news papers strengthens the article premise

Back and forth on this discussion removing sources. Editing contradiction of position SummerPhD on content first needing more sourcing and then eliminating sources as not needed or overdone. Disturbing is the the negative statement that SummerPhD makes " I'm going to be pecking away at this off and on." further stated "The vast majority of this article is unsourced. Clearly, we need more independent reliable sources." My position clearly is that sources of the time period support the context and content that it just not folklore, or marketing puff but is rooted in Philadelphia culture by the amount of "news" attention exploring the Pretzel Company and the Family that lends to fact telling and inference of phenom of Soft Pretzel in Philadelphia as a food, that is more than a food but taking on an iconic cuisine status among the population.

See Talk:Federal Pretzel Baking Company#Considerable work needed for complete comment of conflicting editor points of SummerPhD what is needed and that when provided is deleted as unnecessary? Pretzelfactory (talk) 23:53, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

WP:BRD - You Boldly added to the article. I Reverted you. At that point it is time to Discuss the issue, not repeatedly restore your preferred version. There is already a note on your page for edit warring. If you restore your preferred version before resolving the issue, I will ask to have you blocked from editing.

Sources - Yes, the article needs more sources to verify the content of the article. That the Federal Pretzel Baking Company began with the Nacchio family's small bakery, which they grew into a large-scale manufacturing business of soft pretzels, using a secret recipe is A) already sourced and B) not in any way controversial. The promotional material in the article should be either sourced to an independent reliable source or removed. Adding more sources to repeatedly confirm very basic, already sourced material does nothing to accomplish that.

An unofficial youtube account reading the article does not in any way improve the sourcing of the article. A second video from the same unofficial account reading the article is beyond pointless.

A headline in local coverage of a local business does not establish that the business is "often" called anything. It establishes that a single headline in local coverage said it.

See also Pretzel - The article lead includes a link to Soft pretzel which redirects to Pretzel. The see also is redundant. Per MOS:SEEALSO, "As a general rule, the 'See also' section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body."

I get from your vague response to the question that you likely have a conflict of interest here. I am tagging this page as such. - SummerPhD^v2.0 04:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm pulling the RFC tag a few days early, because I don't think you're going to get a useful response with that question. User:SummerPhDv2.0, by way of moving this forward and helping Pretzelfactory figure out what your concerns are and how these things get resolved at the English Wikipedia, would you please pick out a single, ideally isolated, problem and start a model discussion either in a new section here or at a suitable noticeboard? (For example, if you want to go through the YouTube/audio recording thing, then you could host a discussion of it at WP:ELN.) I think that showing how some of the procedural stuff works might be more efficient in the long run. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Good faith effort to discussion was ignored by SummerPhd editor - requested WIki review and I was the one WARNED? (seems unfair ruling)

Response I was not engaged in an edit war. SummerPHd seems to have total ownership of editing on this wiki page and did not engage in discussion. Therefore I believe the below response was to strong and unfair. Stating here just because user name has "pretzel" in name should not indicate a conflict. I totally object to comment that this is what was going on and did not know how to request page protection. Thank you for response that included ---"Your recent editing history at Federal Pretzel Baking Company shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection." Pretzelfactory (talk) 21:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

"To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done." - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Request edit on 5 March 2020 - Response to Claim of Conflict

{{request edit}} I have read and now better understand the policy of stated as "Conflict of interest (COI) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia about yourself, family, friends, clients, employers, or your financial and other relationships. Any external relationship can trigger a conflict of interest. That someone has a conflict of interest is a description of a situation, not a judgement about that person's opinions, integrity, or good faith." Be advised about assumed conflicts: I have no financial interest in this company (now or at time in the past), or any company or business related to PRETZELS (soft or hard) or any snack food of any kind. I am not employed or have as a client any Pretzel business. I do not have friends currently in the business but heard oral transmitted stories from friends and family. TO REMAIN NEUTRAL I researched the subject gathering written material on the subject to document facts to sustain an article and included root pillars of truth and was careful not to be influenced by personal opinion. At all times I attempted to maintain integrity, or good faith navigating a subject for Wikipedia that was overlooked in mainstream digital and hidden in non-digitized print medium. Pretzelfactory (talk) 19:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)