Talk:Federalism in the United Kingdom

Yorkshire Devolution Paragraph

This paragraph is not really relevant to this page and is much better suited to the "Devolution in the United Kingdom" page. All references also refer to devolution and not federalism. Can whoever wrote this paragrpah please add it to the devolution page because it is worth using. Alternatively if you can find who wrote this in the edit history I would appreciate if you added it to the Devolution page with the citation. Thanks.

"Regions (both formal and informal) which have had support for devolution include Yorkshire and Cornwall. The Yorkshire Party (formerly Yorkshire First) is a registered political party which promotes Yorkshire as a self-governing unit. The party stood 28 candidates in the 2019 General Election, received 50,000 votes (3.9%) in the Yorkshire and the Humber constituency during the 2019 European Union Parliamentary Election, and has representation through local councillors. This cause has also been supported by the cross-party One Yorkshire group of 18 local authorities (out of 20) in Yorkshire. One Yorkshire has sought the creation of a directly elected mayor of Yorkshire, devolution of decision-making to Yorkshire, and giving the county access to funding and benefits similar to combined authorities. Various proposals differ between establishing this federal unit in Yorkshire and the Humber (which excludes parts of Yorkshire and includes parts of Lincolnshire), in the county of Yorkshire as a whole, or in parts of Yorkshire, with Sheffield and Rotherham each opting for a South Yorkshire Deal. This has been criticised by proponents of the One Yorkshire solution, who have described it as a Balkanisation of Yorkshire and a waste of resources." TG11TG15 (talk) 11:41, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Moved this paragraph to the "Devolution in the United Kingdom" page as all references refer to devolution not federalism. Thanks.Titus Gold (talk) 19:07, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

References

Commonwealth of Britain Bill

Is there a particular reason Tony Benn's Commonwealth of Britain Bill is not mentioned in this article? In addition to wanting to establish a republic, it advocated a federal system for the country! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 21:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Just added the Bill to the page! TG11TG15 (talk) 00:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

I will look to add this imminently. ThanksTG11TG15 (talk) 23:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Recent Major Immprovements

I have made recent major improvement to the page. Page now reflects the generally accepted view of the concept of a "Federal United Kingdom" which is a federal government of the 4 contiuent nations. I have also kept a heading for Federal English regions because this has also been referred to historically and more recently. All content that I removed was unreferenced with the exception of the pargraph below which I think would fit better in the "Devolution in the United Kingdom" page since it does nt mention federalism at all. Also please feel free to re-add the unreferenced content once referenced properly to the appropriate heading. My major improvements were reverted by another user citing need for consensus. If you could please have a look at the recent revert and coment below if you are happy for me to re-install my major edits?

ThanksTitus Gold (talk) 13:56, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree that better references should always be provided. However, your text appears to be a very substantial rewrite and (incidentally) is full of typos and style errors. In my opinion it is not an "improvement". I would be interested in other editors' opinions. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:20, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Rewrite of what? Which typos are you referring to? There are minimal typos in the work I added if at all. If there are any typos at all, the content is well referenced and relevant.Titus Gold (talk) 17:15, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Also, you say "better references". There were zero references in the sections I removed, no way to validate the content. Like I said in the edits, people are welcome to re-add these edits if they are referenced. All the content I added was referenced and related to the current definition of a federal UK which vast majority of references point to a Federal Union of the 4 nations. I maintained the section on English region federalism also that was referenced. Titus Gold (talk) 17:15, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Let's start with your first sentence:

A Federal United Kingdom refers to the concept of a division of powers between the constituent countries of the UK and a central government. Sovereignty is non-non-centralized between two or more levels of government so that both levels have a final authority for governance.

Why is the word "A" bolded? Why do the bolded words differ unnecessarily from the article title (see MOS:FIRST)? Why do you suggest a construction like "X refers to Y" - again, contrary to MOS:FIRST? What on earth does "non-non-centralized" mean? Why do you need a citation in the opening paragraph - it should simply summarise sourced material in the main text per MOS:LEADCITE? That's just one sentence. It's a complete mess, and certainly not an "Immprovement" [sic]. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:13, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

All addressed. Thank you for your notes. Rather than criticse the occasional typo, you may also consider just correcting them and add some of your own contributions? "The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article." This is an introduction, not an abstract. As such I would suggest that citations are very valuable. The definition of Federalism is very important and the source should be acknowledged. Titus Gold (talk) 21:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

References

1997 Scottish devolution referendum.

In 1997 a referendum was held in Scotland on a Scottish parliament which was supported by 74.3% of Scots.

This is not true. The turnout for the referendum was < 70% of eligible voters, and 74% of them supported devolution. It's also not attributed to any source. GimliDotNet (talk) 13:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Article title

I've requested admin intervention over the undiscussed move of this article, at WP:RMT. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

It was one user for and one against as was previously discussed, therefore enough of a mandate to change. Undo of this change is fine but could you provide feedback as to why you've undone the name change? The article is more about a Federal UK rather than federalism in the UK. Thanks Titus Gold (talk) 18:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

There was no "mandate for change". The reasons for undoing your change were set out in my request at WP:RMT. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:00, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Officially Northern Ireland a province & England, Wales and Scotland countries

Previous discussion showed that 3 editors agreed that Northern Ireland is a province with only one editor diagreeing with semingly no research done by this one editor in Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/Archive 4#NI is a "Province". Kbimbatti22 also agrees that NI is a province as do I, based on the UK GOV website and ISO references listed below. That makes 5:1 in favour of Northern Ireland being a province and therefore I would suggest this is a consensus.

See evidence below

According to the International Standards Organisation (ISO) Northern ireland is a province, whilst Wales, Scotland and England are countries.

Northern Ireland is also a province and Wales, England and Scotland are countries according to a current version of the UK GOV website.

Northern Ireland also referred to as province by author on books on Northern Ireland.

Thanks Titus Gold (talk) 13:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

References