Talk:Felipe Garcia

Requested move 30 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Felipe Garcia (no accent). This is a case where two parts of WP:DABNAME point in opposite directions, and editors have simply made a judgment call as to which factor deserves more weight in this case. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:45, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

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Felipe Garcia (disambiguation) → Felipe Garcia – tidy up after moving non primary topic Inwind (talk) 19:41, 28 October 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:32, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

• Hi, why Garcia and not García like most entries? Dr. Vogel (talk) 22:43, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

  @DrVogel: WP:DABNAME states that The simplest form of the term is preferred to those containing punctuation, diacritics and articles. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 01:35, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  The part of WP:DABNAME that applies here is: The spelling that reflects the majority of items on the page is preferred to less common alternatives. At the time when I placed my comment, most entries on the dabpage had the stress mark. Inwind then removed most of the ones with the stress mark, which I've undone, at least for now, as it's relevant to this discussion. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:49, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  Spanish names have a first and second surname. The second surname is generally omitted in the English wikipedia. Inwind (talk) 15:56, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  WP:PARTIAL applies too, but that's getting into content of the DAB, which isn't a technical page moving issue and should be discussed elsewhere if it's a concern. -Kj cheetham (talk) 15:59, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  Oh yes of course, WP:PARTIAL too. I think that although we all agree that this should be moved, the target is not completely uncontroversial. Dr. Vogel (talk) 20:36, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  The current Felipe Garcia (disambiguation) does not have diacritics, so lopping off the parenthetical is uncontroversial. No prejudice to starting an RM after that if somebody feels that it should be moved to Felipe García. 162 etc. (talk) 22:09, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  For the record, I have no objections to the move as requested. If DrVogel is happy then this probably is uncontroversial, else should go to RM, though given DrVogel's comment above and them already having undone this move on 29 October, I suspect RM is the way forward in practice. Adding diacritics would be a different request I agree would be potentially controversial from the outset. -Kj cheetham (talk) 23:26, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  P.S. Also pinging Idoghor Melody for awareness, who did this move previously. -Kj cheetham (talk) 23:31, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

  Hi, when Idoghor Melody moved it he hadn't noticed my comment (see here). I agree like everyone else that the "(disambiguation)" bit should be dropped. If you want to move it please feel free. I'm only saying that, because most entries have the diacritic, then if we're going to move it, why not move it directly to the one with the diacritic. Dr. Vogel (talk) 00:00, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There are eleven bulleted entries listed upon the Felipe Garcia (disambiguation) page, seven of which are accented and four are not. I am under the impression that disambiguation page main title headers in English Wikipedia use accents and / or diacritics only if all dab page entries on any specific dab page use the same accents and / or diacritics. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:23, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Felipe Garcia or Felipe García

Please indicate whether you think that the page should be moved to Felipe Garcia (without the diacritics) or to Felipe García (with the diacritics) below. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:38, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support move to unaccented Felipe Garcia per nomination. Disambiguation page main title header should be accented only if all of the page's entries are accented. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:53, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

  Hi Roman, the guideline speaks of "majority", not "all". If anything was the case for "all" the entries, then we'd never have an issue. Please see below. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:31, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Dr. Vogel, while the guideline does provide general guidance, it cannot function as "one-guideline-fits-all". When there are contrasting points of view, it is up to WP:LOCALCONSENSUS to resolve the matter unless there are clear precedents to cite. Voters at the recent Talk:Benjamin Davis#Requested move 24 September 2022 agreed that although more men listed upon the Benjamin Davis disambiguation page are named "Ben" than are named "Benjamin", the dab page's main title header should nevertheless indicate "Benjamin".

There was likewise agreement at Talk:Alexis Diaz#Requested move 4 October 2022, that although the majority of the names were accented (Díaz), the one unaccented name (Diaz) would indicated that the main header should be unaccented.

In the case at hand, since English language does not use accents or diacritics, disambiguation page main title headers lean towards no-accents/diacritics, with the accented header redirecting to the unaccented header, rather than the unaccented header redirecting to the accented one, unless every dab page entry is accented.

There are four unaccented entries and seven accented entries on this dab page, but even if only one entry was unaccented, the dab page header would need to be unaccented, thus giving priority to the direct Felipe Garcia unaccented link, rather than to the Felipe Garcia redirect to the accented Felipe García. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:37, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support move accented Felipe García, per WP:DABNAME, which reads: The spelling that reflects the majority of items on the page is preferred to less common alternatives. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:29, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support move to unaccented Felipe Garcia per WP:DABNAME, the simplest form of the term is preferred to those containing punctuation, diacritics and articles. I'm assuming the order of things on the DABNAME list doesn't matter, but I also think of "Felipe García" and "Felipe Garcia" as being the same spelling (though admit I may be wrong in practice about that!). I would be saying go for "Felipe García" if all entries on the DAB were like that though. -Kj cheetham (talk) 13:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

  Hi, diacritics do count as different spelling. Ultimately, what we have here is a conflict between 2 points of the same guideline: the one that's telling us that the simplest form is preferred, and the one that's telling us that the one that appears most times is preferred. Dr. Vogel (talk) 18:07, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support move to unaccented Felipe Garcia per nomination, I think it's the easiest compromise since in English many of the accents are also often removed. Maybe make a language distinction or something in the lede.--Ortizesp (talk) 00:00, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support move to unaccented Felipe Garcia and remove the Garcías with only maternal surname. Inwind (talk) 12:15, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.