Talk:Femininity/Archive of common concerns

The views on this page do not necessarily reflect the views of all the editors of the femininity page.

This page is a depository of some of the common concerns and objections that need to keep being stated when changes are made to the femininity article. It has been created so that editors of the femininity article can just copy and paste one of the below concerns and objections into the actual talk page rather than repeatedly type out the same arguments over and over again. This archive page unlike other archive pages can be added to and edited by any editor. That being said it is on the watchlist of several editors and if you are unable to come to a consensus with the other editors about the wording of a given concern or objection you should quickly just create a branch version of that concern or objection.

This page's creation was discussed on the femininity talk page. Ideas on how to give stability to the new lede

Comments related to lede

Basic information concerning lede

The below is only guaranteed to be the opinion of one editor, although other editors may share it.

Because the subject of femininity is so contentious, the lede of this article seems to be subject to more change than the ledes of other articles. Consensus for the present lede of this page has been achieved through the work of several editors over many days. (This presently does not include the lede image) In some cases the exact wording of a given sentence in the lede has been chosen to appease all concerned. Here are some links to some of these discussions: Talk:Femininity/Archive 1#The lead sentence, Talk:Femininity/Archive 2#Definition of femininity.

Of course it goes without saying that you are still more than welcome to contest anything in the lede, I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of its history as I’ve checked your contributions and you seem to be a new editor of this article.

Removal of “biologically-created” from Social construction sentence

The below is only guaranteed to be the opinion of one editor, although other editors may share it.

I just want to point out, in case you were not aware of it, that the consensus for the exact wording of sentence you have just edited was achieved only after a 18,000 word discussion took place. You of course are free to object to it, but I just wish to quickly cite the broad strokes of the discussion that is relevant to your edit.
It was argued that the use of the phrase “socially constructed”, without the reference to “biologically-created factors” did not take into account the views of a those in the scientific community who hold that biology plays a partial role in determining what we consider feminine behavour. Refer to this collection of expanded references for evidence of the existence of this view. If you absolutely object to the lede because it suggests to the reader that it is an accepted fact that both cultural and biological factors play a role in femininity, the solution is not to have the lede suggest that only cultural factors play a role. For that is objectionable to those who hold that both cultural and biological factors play a role. Your only recourse would be to insist that the lede take no position on the matter at all. Given my experience you may be able to find active editors who would support you in that position and thus you may be able to reach a consensus to do so.

Removal of the line which gave examples of feminine attributes

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An edit that is far to extensive to allow without having reached a consensus first

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An edit that had no edit summary explaining the reason for the edit

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An edit that contains two separate edits that would be best dealt with one at a time

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Comments related to rest of article

Photo's need references as well

The Wikipedia Verifiability requirement requires that sources provide the foundation for all material in an article. We cannot rely on the judgement of an editor to claim that a particular photo or piece of art is representative of femininity. If a claim is made in the caption of an image it must have an appropriate reference.

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This archive was initially created by Dave3457 (talk) 07:31, 7 July 2011 (UTC)