Talk:Feral parrot

contested statements removed

• Budgerigar Feral Budgerigars have existed since the 1940s in the St Petersburg, Florida area of the United States, but have decreased since the early 1980s. Colder than normal winter temperatures in some years and increased competition from European Starlings appear to be the main reasons for the declining population.{{Fact|date=August 2007}}
• Alexandrine Parakeet Often flocking with the naturalized P. krameri populations in Belgium and England are smaller populations of Alexandrine Parakeets (Psittacula eupatria).{{Fact|date=August 2007}}
• Monk Parakeet (Quaker Parakeet} Populations of the Monk Parakeet (Myiopsitta monachus) have established themselves in many areas of the United States and Spain.{{Fact|date=August 2007}}
• Many states in the U.S. have now enacted laws banning some of the above species & most particularly monk (aka quaker) Parakeet/Parrot from being sold, bred, or kept as pets.{{Fact|date=August 2007}}
• [Rose-ringed Parakeets] are believed (and in some cases documented{{Fact|date=December 2006}}) to have descended from escaped or released pets.

Please don't return any of this information to the article without a citation--BirgitteSB 19:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

article is questionably objective; needs citations; etc.

Someone who knows how to do this, please flag this article as "questionably objective" and "needs citations" (and "needs reorganization": why are the things in the "other" category not classified as the ones above it?).

It's also (very?) incomplete; it needs to at least acknowledge that there are many more feral parrots worldwide than are listed here (e.g., http://www.hear.org/alienspeciesinhawaii/waringreports/parrot.htm, http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=10372980, http://www.cityparrots.com/post/the-wild-parrots-of-kailua-kona).

Sorry to just be adding comments without fixing the problems, but I'm not an expert in this area/don't have time/inclination to fix this stuff, but just wanted to point out a few things to those who might be experts/willing.

Aloha, philiptdotcom (talk) 19:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Genuinely Agree with this. Had updated relevant information - sighting references - for the parrot species in my homeland of New Zealand as I know there was misleading information regarding current status, locations, history etc. Plus some added information on rosellas on Maui, & Norfolk Island. My genuine updates were all removed, leaving a lackluster article - I'm undoing them being removed, shortly. Cool if more information & specifics added for other species however, otherwise it may look like NZ has a disproportionate amount of introduced species.

Regards JH (talk) 17:39, 02 October 2014

I reverted your edits because they contained substantial copyright violations. Feel free to update the article without ripping text directly from copyrighted sources, however. DoctorKubla (talk) 08:05, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

"Feral" used incorrect

The term feral is used incorrectly here. Feral refers to domesticated animals regaining a life in the wild. Most introduced parrot populations however stem from wild caught birds that where transported trough trade but where not domesticated. The correct term to use is in Introduced or Neozoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.171.147.35 (talk) 08:24, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the origin of most of these 'non native' flocks was unknown anyway, with various unconfirmed stories and urban legends circulating about how the colony founders came to be there. Do you have access to published studies/books/etc. (bearing in mind WP:RELIABLESOURCES) which state definitively that these birds (or certain flocks thereof) originated from escaped wild-caught parrots? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 04:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Most parrots have been in captivity for only a few generations. The burden of proof is reverse. Proof if any of the introduced parrot population is actually feral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.173.177.3 (talk) 21:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

"Feral" is a domesticated species which has reverted back to the wild. These organisms were never domesticated, genetically altered by selective breeding in captivity by man. I like a new word, but "Neozoon" implies an invasive species. Rosellas in New Zealand are hardly invasive as they generally occupy a non-native niche, feeding on introduced plants & hardly competing with native birds. "Introduced" is a more appropriate word ornithologically speaking, but criteria should be set at birds breeding in the wild, & able to sustain themselves without human help. Also "Non-native ecosystem" is not quite correct either, parrots are adaptive, & one species may occupy many different types of ecosystem in their native land. JH (talk) 18:02, 02 October 2014

Soviet Union

During the 80s and up to mid-90s small flocks of budgerigars were spotted in various cities of the Soviet Union. Most of them were hanging around with sparrows and were seen mostly on beaches and in parks. Their ability to survive during the winter was doubtful and therefore some individuals tried to catch some of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.191.206.10 (talk) 18:01, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Parrots in London

Also [1] We have a few escapee that have gone on to form a fair size colony. The RSBP are monitoring them, but it's a problem in London and thought it should be noted on the article. Govvy (talk) 12:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

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A whole recent book on naturalised parrots

Can be found here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353812210_THE_FATE_OF_MULTISTAGE_PARROT_INVASIONS_IN_SPAIN_AND_PORTUGAL

Unfortunately, I won't have the time to use this great reference to improve this article, so I don't mind if someone else takes it up. 134.96.90.26 (talk) 08:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 27 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 08:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Feral parrot → Non-native parrot
• Feral parakeets in Great Britain → Parakeets in Great Britain

– No parrot species has been domesticated, hence "feral" is inaccurate terminology. And "non-native parrot" has more Google search results than "feral parrot". Also, "feral parakeets in Great Britain" is redundant, as it has no native parakeets. Grey Clownfish (talk) 03:19, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• No parrot species has been domesticated — apart from companion parrots. I suppose "feral" is meant to distinguish the parrots from pet parrots? "Parakeets in Great Britain" alone wouldn't work as it needs something to distinguish from pets. "Non-native parakeets in Great Britain" doesn't work, as there are no natives. "Feral" seems like a sensible descriptor, unless there is a more scientifically accurate term. Cnbrb (talk) 09:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, I think. Some feral parrots clearly do descend from domestic stock - see the lovebird photos on this page, for instance. Wild lovebirds are green and pink only. The other colours are a result of generations of selective breeding in captivity. Iloveparrots (talk) 20:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Even if there are some domesticated parrots, many non-domesticated parrots have been introduced too. Maybe budgies and cockatiels have been domesticated, though I doubt it, but plenty of pet parrots clearly aren't domesticated. What's more, according to Feral parrot, some "feral" parakeets may have descended from escaped zoo birds. Grey Clownfish (talk) 03:36, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  Being descended from escaped zoo birds does not mean they aren't feral. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  In general, zoos only have non-domesticated animals. Descendents of non-domesticated zoo parrots aren't feral. As "feral" means descended from domesticated organisms.

  If any captive animal/organism can give rise to feral populations, even if it isn't domesticated, then the Feral article needs to be changed. Grey Clownfish (talk) 04:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Parrots kept in captivity are still non-native but are not feral. There are many parakeets kept in captivity in Great Britain, also not feral. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:40, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  In that case, I think Introduced parrot and Introduced parakeets in Great Britain may be the best titles. But "introduced" doesn't seem to be as commonly used as "non-native" and "feral". Grey Clownfish (talk) 04:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe Non-native and feral parrots and Non-native and feral parakeets in Great Britain would be appropriate? Iloveparrots (talk) 06:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

• It seems to be controversial whether any parrot species has been domesticated. So I think that calling introduced parrots "feral" violates WP:NPOV. It's also outright inaccurate as even if some introduced parrots are domesticated and therefore feral, there's no way they all are. Unless "feral" is defined as something other than "descendents of introduced domesticated organisms", which may also violate WP:NPOV. Grey Clownfish (talk) 04:30, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Feral isn't restricted to escaped domesticated animals, at least in general English language usage. There may be a difference between US and UK.
  • Cambridge dictionary: existing in a wild state, especially describing an animal that was previously kept by people
  • Oxford via google: (especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.
  • Oxford Concise (off my bookshelf): in wild state after escape from captivity.
  • Collins: feral animals are wild animals that are not owned or controlled by anyone, especially ones that belong to species which are normally owned and kept by people.
  • Merriam-Webster having escaped from domestication and become wild

  In general, there is no requirement for the animal to have been domesticated, just kept as pet and/or captive, although the term can be used in a more restrictive sense. The feral article uses "domestic or captive status" in the Animals section, which the lede doesn't reflect. It also uses Merriam-Webster as the source, when that uses the more restrictive definition. There may also be a more technical definition, and I think there have been arguments about dingos being feral because they were commensal rather than fully domesticated, but that is politically charged (should they be protected or fair game). I'd be open to an alternative name if an appropriate one can be found. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, for the reason clearly laid out by Jts1882. MeegsC (talk) 10:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Jts1882 and Necrothesp. Thryduulf (talk) 11:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
• Comment. The definition of "feral" from the Oxford English Dictionary: "Of an animal: Wild, untamed... Now often applied to animals or plants that have lapsed into a wild from a domesticated condition." So "feral", while it often means formerly domesticated, certainly does not have to. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

  FWIW my 1998 edition of Chambers Dictionary gives the definition "Wild, untamed, uncultivated (botany)". The only mention of domestication is in the sub-entry for "feralise"/"feralize" - "run wild after domestication". The online Chambers 21st Century dictionary defines it as "said of animals normally found in a domestic situation or in captivity: wild; fending for itself" Thryduulf (talk) 11:49, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the scholarly literature does seem to use "feral" for these populations on occasion, though also "non-native", "alien", "introduced", and "invasive", in increasing order of popularity - I could find 171 papers in Web of Science using one of the five terms, of which "invasive" was in about half. (There were also a handful using "exotic" but that's hard to disentangle from people talking about exotic pets.)

So you can very much take your pick for possible terms! However, as with "feral", I think you could argue with any of these on strict etymological grounds - none is a perfect option. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

To add to the possible terms, the Wildlife Trusts refers to them as "naturalised parrots". [Edit. I now see the section above uses the term and has a whole book on them.] —  Jts1882 | talk  17:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.