Talk:Fifth Sunday of Easter

"Sing-song Sunday"

"... it's sometimes nicknamed "Sing-song Sunday."

Is that so? And where is the evidence that this nickname is more widespread than a private joke in some congregation? A Google search for "sing-song Sunday" in combination with "cantate", subtracting Wikipedia mirrors, produces exactly five matches, none of them very reputable or even close to being a reliable source. --87.150.10.49 (talk) 18:51, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Article name

This article was moved without a discussion from Cantate Sunday to Fifth Sunday of Easter. I don't think that was a good idea, because yes, the Sunday has many names, but no, I don't think Fifth Sunday of Easter is a common name. The various names could be explained and redirected while using the article name Cantate Sunday which is a name common over centuries, and still used today. I believe the move should have been discussed before it happened, or at least when it was reverted. I oppose it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:15, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

"Cantate Sunday" has been used over many centuries, yes, but only by one branch of Christianity. "Fifth Sunday of Easter" is the name currently used by most Catholics and by most Anglicans and liturgical Protestants (the ones that use the Revised Common Lectionary), and is functionally synonymous with "Fifth Sunday of Holy Pascha" as used by the Byzantine Rite Orthodox. Given that it is currently the prevailing name among almost all major branches of Christianity, "Fifth Sunday of Easter" is as close to a common name as you can get. Although it has historical significance for a certain subset of Christianity, "Cantate Sunday" is rarely used today in the English-speaking Christian world. Jdcompguy (talk) 14:11, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't know (about the English-speaking world). Living in Germany, I still hear it, and Bach's cantatas were especially for singing that Sunday, not just some number, which has a history of 300 years. Example: Es ist euch gut, daß ich hingehe, BWV 108. The fifth Sunday isn't even mentioned in Church cantata. My 2ct. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:25, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

If "Kantate" is the common name given to this day in Germany, then by all means, the German Wikipedia should keep that name for this day. As far as the English Wikipedia is concerned: my own experience is that, as a native English speaker with extensive education in Christian liturgy, I had never heard of "Cantate Sunday" until recently. It's almost universally called the Fifth Sunday of Easter, except by traditionalists, who call it the "Fourth Sunday after Easter." Jdcompguy (talk) 14:33, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia where I am more active than in the German. "Common name" isn't what happens to be current usage but what is common in reliable sources. English sources for the cantata call it "Fourth Sunday after Easter (Cantate)", a book, a website, or plain "Cantate", a website. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It makes sense that Cantate would be the common name for the cantatas, since the cantatas would have been composed back when the Cantate name was more common. The common name for the liturgical day, however, is Fifth Sunday of Easter. I am under the assumption that the primary topic for this article is the liturgical day itself, not the music surrounding it. And, I would add again, the cantatas apply to only one specific tradition within one specific branch of Christianity. The scope of this article's topic is much broader than that. Jdcompguy (talk) 15:11, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

That doesn't change that the present name is not known at all in this tradition of centuries, which you thereby exclude. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Thinking loud more: Cantata is a short and unique name. Some count to five including Easter, others count to four after Easter, but Cantate could easily include both, instead of preferring one way of counting over the other. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:34, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Unofficial names such as "Cantate Sunday" are completely absent from the entire, centuries-long tradition of Roman Rite liturgical books. Calling it "tradition of centuries" is hardly accurate. Please understand that I am speaking from a liturgical perspective; you are likely speaking from a German musical perspective. Like I've said, I'm operating under the assumption that this is an article about worldwide liturgy, not German cantatas. In addition to not being the common name in a liturgical context, "Cantate" is too narrow for the topic of the article, since it excludes the entirety of Eastern Christianity as well as non-Roman Western rites. "Fifth Sunday of Easter," on the other hand, is used across the majority of Christian traditions in the present day. I understand the desire to include past centuries, but "Cantate" does not accomplish that, given that the Roman Rite itself--the tradition in which the informal name is used--doesn't actually call it by that name. Jdcompguy (talk) 17:02, 11 April 2021 (UTC)