Talk:Final Fantasy magic

Bluster/Blaster spell from enemies

Hello everybody! I have repeatedly modified the spell named "Blaster" in the Blue Magic section, since this name is misspelled in the translation. The correct magic comes from Final Fantasy IV, is performed by Coeuries and/or Black Cats, and it's called "Bluster". I would like all your feedbacks regarding this fact, in order to proceed with its correction in the corresponding section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Staalwart (talk • contribs) 18:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Coeurls in most games use "Blaster". Can you provide a source that the one used in FFIV is more correct than the term used in most other Final Fantasies? --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 18:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I also believe that Blaster is the more common form of the spell. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 18:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I could cite several resources, most of them bestiaries and walkthroughs. Some of them are:

[1] RPG Place.NET
[2] Forums at EyesofFF.com
[3] NeoSeeker.com
[4] FF Sky.com (Note: in this page, although in Chinese, we can see that, in the original Japanese version, the attack is named "Blaster", whilst in the American translated version is translated as "Bluster" - hence the discussion about which one is the correct name)
[5] FAQs at iGN.com (This is for the Playstation version - Final Fantasy Chronicles)
Specially significative is the following page[6], in which the author specifies that the name of the spell in FF Chronicles/Anthologies (PSX) is Bluster, the original name in FF4J is burasuta (hence the English translation of "bluster"), the common mistranslation is Blaster, and the name in FF2 US (which is, again, Bluster).

Awaiting your comments...

Staalwart 18:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

1. Your sources all point to "Bluster" being used in FFIV, that information is irrelevant. No one is arguing that "Bluster" was used, and sourcing that bit of info is completely superfluous. What you should be sourcing, is something that says that FFIV's version is correct and the rest are not.
2. A walkthrough or fansite is not a WP:RS, and thus cannot be used to verify content in any WP article.
3. "...original name in FF4J is burasuta (hence the English translation of "bluster")" is incorrect, because that doesn't make "Bluster". By your own link, the original japanese is "burAsuta". I don't know how much you know about japanese, but that is how the english word "Blaster" is written with japanese characters. It is written with four characters "Bu-Ra-Su-Ta", which is pronounced "Brasta". "Ta" is used to approximate the english pronounciation of "-ter", and "R" is used for both the english "L" and "R", so "Brasta" is clearly "Blaster". If it were meant to be "Bluster" then the original japanese would have been written "burUsuta" (pronounced "brusta") instead.

--—ΔαίδαλοςΣ

Σ 19:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I stand corrected, beaten and bruised though, but corrected...
Doubt clarified, and claim withdrawn.
Staalwart 22:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Notability flag

Is the notability flag serious? Does anyone doubt that the subject of this article is notable? Can we just remove the flag, or is there something else to be done? I forget who added the flag, but I have heard no discussion about it, and am wondering if we should just remove the flag. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 03:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I can understand why it was put there - this article isn't really of interest even to the majority of the series' players - only to a set of fans. It's not mentioned outside of the series, to my knowledge, so it really does seem quite crufty. While I love the article and want it to stay, it really doesn't seem to be appropriate.

So, yeah, we should leave the tag there until good arguments for why this page isn't cruft can be formulated.KrytenKoro 07:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It was originally placed by the editor Kariteh on 17th April 2007. He/she had not started a discussion on this, though if it had I think it would have taken a large portion on the talk page. — Bluerです。 ^なにか? 07:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

This entire article is a glorified game guide and gigantic example farm. It is totally unsourced, and secondary and third-party sources would be difficult to find. It is written almost in an in-universe point of view, as it lacks "Creation and influences" and "Reception and criticism" sections. In its current state, the article is definitely not notable. Kariteh 08:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Your claims sounds so true that it scares me how this article can be so close to be nominated for deletion. There has been no citation so far, most subjects are based from observation, and the game guide feature can be found in many sections. — Bluerです。 ^なにか? 09:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The above comments show how it is a poorly sourced article, but I fail to see how that translates into a non-notable topic. Much of the material for this page was moved from either Final Fantasy (series) or article on individual FF titles. If this article were deleted, we would see considerable bloat on many of the other FF articles. While I agree that sources would greatly improve this article, I have stated several times before that finding sources for an ongoing series like this is quite problematic. I can find lots of sources about individual titles, but seldom about the series in general. If one can be found, it is only valid until the next title comes out; after that, any and all statements could now be false. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 12:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Bill, it is most certainly poorly sourced, but WP:V and WP:N are not the same thing. Just because it is example farm and unsourced doesn't mean it isn't notable. I'd like to make a comparison to Spira (Final Fantasy X). This article has only one section of out-of-universe information, and it contains only two salient facts: (1) Yoshinori Kitase wanted a "simple fantasy world" and (2) Tetsuya Nomura wanted a "predominantly asian theme". And yet with only 2 out-of-universe facts this article is still featured as an example of a notable article on WP:FICT. It's also important to note that the reason given for it's notability is that it "[was] evolved from lists of terms, events and concepts into general encyclopedia articles" so lacking "Creation and Influences" and "Reception Criticism" is clearly not a valid reason to claim non-notability (granted, they wouldn't hurt to further assert it, and it is important that we get something at some point). Is there any reason that the same rationale does not also apply to this article? --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 15:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I generally agree, although I just went and replaced Spira (Final Fantasy X) with World of Final Fantasy VIII since it's essensially the same thing but with more out of universe information. But yes; a topic's notability is not the same as how the topic is currently treated. — Deckiller 15:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

"this article isn't really of interest even to the majority of the series' players - only to a set of fans. It's not mentioned outside of the series, to my knowledge, so it really does seem quite crufty." - That's why it's very close to non-notable - NOBODY BUT US CARES.KrytenKoro 21:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

There is also a practical aspect to keeping this article. It provides someplace to move things when they get added to the already huge main article Final Fantasy (series). I moved a ton of stuff from the main article to trim it down. If this article were to be deleted, the main article would suffer an extreme case of "content creep". As for the nobody cares argument, this article is a great way for new fans to understand the culture behind the series. Most fans wouldn't need the article, because they already know what Esuna means, but a newbie probably doesn't. After all, there are many people who doesn't care about Final Fantasy, but that doesn't mean the topic isn't notable. (Such people have serious problems, of course, but they are free to not care. ;^) wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 00:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

A few months ago, we started a sandbox of a gameplay of Final Fantasy article, User:Deckiller/Gameplay of Final Fantasy, which will bring together the Final Fantasy items, Limit Break, elements from the main article, Final Fantasy magic, and overviews of other articles. It's been put on the backburner temporarily. — Deckiller 01:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that even if "NOBODY BUT US CARES" that does not mean that something is non-notable. I'd like to point out that per our guidelines Notability is not popularity. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 05:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

"For example, popular Internet fads may be the subject of few or no reliable sources and fail to be notable, but a rather obscure seventeenth-century poet may have substantial coverage in reliable histories qualifying the subject as notable." - This is what I meant by "nobody but us cares" - there's no coverage by this except for the more obsessed fans, such as us. Unless you count game guides, which we aren't supposed to be, no "reliable" source has covered anything on this page.KrytenKoro 06:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You have to differentiate between something that isn't sourced, and something that is not likely to have sources. Being a large factor in the Final Fantasy Franchise, FF Magic is likely to have many sources from third parties, in fact, here's the results of a 5 second Google Scholar search that all talk about Final Fantasy and it's Magic [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] See? There is plenty of available sources for information, they just aren't used and/or aren't referenced into the article. This article is certainly not very well verified, but it is definitely notable. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 06:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

A minor criticism - the first two don't mention Final Fantasy magic at all, the third merely mentions that it exists, and the Elvaan and Tarutaru thing, the fourth goes so far as to mention that FF magic resembles Shinto, the next actually does something relevant to the topic (briefly discussing how magicite works and that magic is used in battle), and the last recognizes summoning Aeons, the leveling and reception of magical ability, and the wonderful line:

• "For Skirrow, an internalised anxiety about an unreal danger, understood in terms of castration anxiety, is externalised with the embodiment of the “penis-as-magic-wand” ".

I think the last one is what we are actually looking for as proof of notability, so, it seems it is settled. I'd just like to add that that essay is perhaps the best thesis paper ever. Why do the liberal arts kids get to have all the fun assignments?KrytenKoro 07:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to add, that those were copy-and-pasted results of a 5 second google scholar search, and I understand now (after reading more thouroughly) that not all of them when read in depth are relevant. However, I have since found a few more, and have now included more information in the opening paragraph that helps assert notability as well as add more meaningful content to the article. I understand that the prose is choppy and may need some tweaks and revisions, but it's late at night for where I am, and I simply don't have the brain power to perform the proper tweaks, so I just included the info as I found it, and it can be fixed later. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 08:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: As a side note, if you really read that last thesis it's a kick! That is perhaps the most fascinating thesis I have ever parsed and I strongly recommend all Final Fantasy fans to at least skim through it — especially if you are editing for FFX. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 08:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Excellent. Google Scholar search is great. — Deckiller 12:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha!

I saw this and laughed!

“ Rinoa's dog can perform tricks that most dogs can't, such as bringing people back from the dead and making them invincible ”

♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 13:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

No Summon Magic details for FFVII

Kinda funny considering the fanbase ;) Is this area of the page just for plot conciderations, or an overview of how summons affect gameplay? 68.45.252.169 19:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Final Fantasy Summon Creatures suggestion

Somebody added a mergefrom tag for Final Fantasy Summon Creatures, but didn't start a discussion anywhere, so I guess this will be it.

The article referenced looks like a pretty new stub, but it has a potential to become a significant article. There is a lot of material that could be covered in that article, if it isn't already covered somewhere else. I would give the article time to take shape and then see what should happen to it. Personally, I think merging would be a bad idea at this time.

Merge

1. I don't see, aside from the japanese name for the Summon Creatures, content in the stub article that has not been said in Summoning Magic section. And I'm actually being clairvoyant here, which isn't good, but I foresee the article becoming a game guide instead. I propose a redirect. — Blue。 17:54, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
2. Merge/Delete, I'm quite sure something like that has been deleted before. Axem Titanium 16:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't Merge

1. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 16:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC) - Too soon. Let the article develop. Also, give people time to figure out if the material is already (or should be) in some other article (Like Final Fantasy Summon Magic).

Summon Page

anyone want a page devoted to the summon monsters themselves? i'm not asking for a gamewiki just a discription of the summon and its appeances so farKou Nurasaka (talk) 16:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ShivaFFX-X2.jpg

Image:ShivaFFX-X2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy III 1/2: Treasure of the Silent Cartographer

Super Magic was introduced in Final Fantasy III 1/2: Treasure of the Silent Cartographer and had the ability to copy enemy moves.

Anybody know anything about this? Google didn't come up with anything, so I suspect that this is just somebody plugging their fangame. Besides which, it just sounds like an alternative name for Blue Magic... DGemmell (talk) 16:11, 2 March 2008 (UTC)