Talk:First ladies and partners of California

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Latest comment: 1 year ago by Maile66 in topic Evolution of the role

Jennifer Newsom as First Partner

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Jennifer Newsom wants to be known as First Partner. I'm changing it in the infobox to reflect what the office is known as while her husband is Governor. We don't get to tell California what they can call the office . Please respect this and leave it alone. — Maile (talk) 02:54, 31 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 1 February 2021

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear absence of consensus for a move at this time. BD2412 T 05:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

MOS:JOBTITLES. Showiecz (talk) 14:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Relisting. —Nnadigoodluck 21:12, 11 February 2021 (UTC) Relisting. SITH (talk) 13:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 22:52, 12 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Showiecz, HouseBlaster, Surtsicna, and Paine Ellsworth: Since we're talking about MOS:JOBTITLES, don't you guys think that we should move all capitalised "speaker"s like the one on this article: List of Speaker of the United States House of Representatives elections? —hueman1 (talk contributions) 05:05, 5 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Yes, "speaker" in that case is a common noun. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 19:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • The First Lady of the United States is an official title and should not be lowercase. "Alphabetical List of First Ladies of the United States - Guides, Reference Aids, and Finding Aids (Prints andPhotographs ReadingRoom, Library of Congress)".
  • First Partner of California is currently the official title, and should not be lowercase."First Partner Jennifer Siebel Newsom". California Governor.
We need to use the terminology and capitalization standards of the government the individual is listed for. It would be an over-reach for Wikipedia to overturn any government's style in either terminology or capitalization. — Maile (talk) 15:23, 8 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Support lowercase per MOS:JOBTITLES: Plurals like these are groups of multiple people and thus common nouns and should not be capitalized. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:30, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • I think a lot of y'all are strongly misunderstanding MOS:JOBTITLES. Take a closer read at it. It certainly does not say that any of these have to be lowercase when used as article titles. In fact, it says that there are certainly instances in which these titles should be capitalized. SecretName101 (talk) 20:14, 12 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose all per discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:13, 13 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Strong oppose all per above discussion and discussion at Talk:Second_Ladies_and_Gentlemen_of_the_United_States#Requested_move_31_January_2021, per my rationale there if we change the title to the proposal we have to move every "first lady" and "second lady" articles which is a lot to move. They misinterpreted MOS:JOBTITLES which talks about and gives examples of sentences on the article rather than the article title itself. PyroFloe (talk) 04:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose. Google ngrams show that "First Ladies" is more common than "First ladies" and "first ladies", which contradicts the notion that least this plural title should not be capitalized.

    If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.-- WP:TITLECHANGES

    There is no reason to change this title, let alone a good reason. --В²C 23:09, 25 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose all per Maile, as well as B2C's evidence for COMMONNAME. This is an area where MOS:JOBTITLES doesn't enjoy the community consensus that most areas of the MOS do. It fails to recognize that when something is an actual job title, which these names are, then it acts as a proper noun. It's not necessarily wrong to decap it, and doubtless some organs do, but a majority still treat job titles this way, even in plural or modified form, and it's not wrong for us to go with the majority.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:55, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Three collapsed discussions and notes

Later additions by Maile66

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Later additions by Maile66 (talk):

Discussion regarding ineligible nominator withdrawal

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Note: At this point, PyroFloe declared the RM as withdrawn:

I then reopened the discussion. Per WP:RMCI, RM discussions should not be withdrawn, except "if no one has commented yet, or if opposition is unanimous". This does not apply here, so I reverted the declaration of withdrawal. In fact, there have been more expressions of support than opposition. The discussion should continue below until closed properly by an uninvolved editor (preferably an admin). — BarrelProof (talk) 04:35, 20 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Reversal, or at least revert, of close requested

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See: User talk:StraussInTheHouse#Close at First_ladies_and_partners_of_California --В²C 08:13, 27 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

(edit conflict)As noted on the above linked thread, several pages were moved and should be moved back. The original request to move the pages was withdrawn. Therefore nullifying the requests to move pages. None of them should have been moved. — Maile (talk) 13:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Resolved, closure was in accordance with guidelines but I've accepted I made an incorrect determination of consensus. SITH (talk) 13:32, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:First Ladies and Gentlemen of Kansas which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Evolution of the role

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This article should include a history of the role and current importance. For instance does the person have official/unofficial duties and budget and how has this changed over time? When was the title first used? I couldn't find any use of it in a quick google book search before 1915 (a historic newspaper search showed 1903 for first usage). Erp (talk) 17:11, 25 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

Erp that is an excellent point. You might want to mention this at WT:WOMRED. In 2017, that project had an editathon to improve the articles on First Ladies around the world. — Maile (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2023 (UTC)Reply