Talk:First Republic of Armenia/GA2

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: Olympian (talk · contribs) 07:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 02:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Comments

• ...the most commonly used term... Is this statement specifically verified by one of the 8 references?
• Why do we need 8 references?
• What is the origin of the alternative names (Ararat and Erivan)? (I guess they refer to Mount Ararat and Yerevan.)
• Link and introduce the Dashnaks.
• Link "Soviet-era" to the more specific Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic.
• ...the communist-influenced Armenian academic circles, namely... Delete.
  • ...the academic circles, including... Does the cited source explicitly verify the statement? If not, delete it.
• ...from Persia and Turkey... Link Persia to Qajar Iran, cChange Turkey to Ottoman Empire with a link.
• Owing to Russian colonial policy, more than 100,000 Armenians from Persia and Turkey repatriated to Russian Armenia—specifically, the Erivan Governorate "regained an Armenian majority for the first time in several hundred years", whilst "Armenians had already been a majority in some areas such as mountainous Karabagh"; these areas would later "form the nucleus" of an independent Armenia. Rephrase. (The long sentence should be splitted, and perhaps first Karabagh should be mentioned.)
• When quoting text from a scholar, the scholar should specifically named in the text.
• Link Caucasus campaign.
• In the context, I would say "Bolshevik coup in Russia" or "Bolshevik revolution in Russia" instead of October Revolution to make it clearer for readers.
• ...(which was formed by the Russian Provisional Government to oversee the Caucasus)... Perhaps "(a commitee formed in February by the Russian Provisional Government to oversee the Caucasus)"?
• ...signed the Armistice of Erzincan... With whom?
• ...the Transcaucasian Seim was established... By whom?
• Link Trabzon Conference to Trebizond Peace Conference, and introduce it.
• ...the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was signed... By whom? Use past perfect tense.
• Link Kars.
• ... Kars and Batum were ceded... Mention that the Bolshevik government of Russia agreed to cede the two cities to the Ottomans.
• ...which was only accepted... Make it clear that the Commissariats' delegates accepted it.
• ...a new peace conference was convened in Batum A link?
• ...the two states... Specify.
• ... "avenging" ... "offered" Why the quotation marks?
• ...due to the abandonment of the Georgians... Delete.
• The Armenian National Council comes out of the blue. Was this newly formed?
• The Dashnaks come out of the blue. Introduce them (perhaps in the previous section): when this group was formed, etc.
• ..."many urged"... "not distant" Rephrase to avoid quotation marks. Borsoka (talk) 04:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• ...at least 8,000 young men were taken to Erzurum for slave labour, and 125,000 livestock, 30,000 "farm implement", 6,000 carts, and 18,000 tons of foodstuffs were confiscated. Are these numbers facts or estimations? If estimations, specify it, naming the scholar who made the estimation.
• ...the full significance of the saying, 'the Turk has passed here,' was bruisingly demonstrated"... Specify, this is an Armenian saying, and explain its meaning.
• Quotation marks should be decimated in section Armistice of Mudros.
• ...200 villages were "plundered", half the vineyards in the Aras River valley were "ruined", 200,000 large-horned animals were "driven away" in addition to thousands of carts of "agricultural implements", and 80 percent of households were deprived of a horse and "nearly half" deprived of a cow or ox. Are these numbers facts or estimations? If estimations, specify it, naming the scholar who made the estimation. At least one number (200,000 large-horned animals) seems to contradict the other list (125,000 livestock).
• Rephrase direct quotes in section Armeno-Georgian war.
• British toleration of the state dissolved after the latter defied its directives and Muslim insurgents backed by the latter resisted Georgian forces in the counties of Akhalkalaki and Akhaltsikhe, leading the Georgian government to unite with Armenia in opposing the state's existence. Rephrase it for better understanding, avoiding the use of the term "latter" and splitting the sentence.
• ...2-week... Delete.
• ...local Muslims of up to "ten thousand well-armed men" Rephrase to avoid quotation marks.
• British sympathy to the Aras Republic was reversed under the authority of Major-General William Montgomerie Thomson who suspected Pan-Turkic influence in Nakhchivan due to the presence of Azerbaijani and Ottoman envoys. Thomson believed that Azerbaijan and Turkey were scheming... Ottoman Empire/Ottoman and Turkey/Turkish are not obviously interchangeable. Please check the entire text from this perspective.
• ...(Dro)... ?
• ...which took place in mid-June... Why not past perfect?
• The town of Böyük Vedi and the village cluster around it served as a symbol of defiance for Muslims in Armenia. I do not understand the sentence. Were they the centers of defiance?
• As the insurgencies raged... Select a more neutral verb.
• ...—earlier, he had worked to forestall the Armenian annexation of Nakhchivan This info should be moved into a previous section where it is in context.
• Introduce Anton Denikin.
• Rephrase quotes in sections Armenian-Azerbaijani war, Diplomacy, Karabakh rebellion to avoid quotation marks.
• Section Diplomacy implies that massacre of Muslims by Armenian forces began only in 1919. Can we be sure that Muslims were not massacred and Muslim villages were not sacked during previous Armenian manoeuvres?
• Introduce the Six Vilayets.
• Some words about the March Days massacres?
• ...due to their overlapping territorial claims over Lori, Akhalkalaki, Ardahan, and Olti Delete.
• ...on account of the defeat of the Volunteer Army... Rephrase to make it clear that the Bolsheviks defeated the Volunteer Army in Russia.
• ...the League of Nations and the Supreme Allied Council formally recognised Georgia and Azerbaijan as de facto governments over the region... Rephrase it. (Georgia and Azerbaijan are nations not governments, and the reference to "region" is unclear.)
• ...to accept permanent inclusion within Azerbaijan... Rephrase (to accept the decision, or something else)
• Link and introduce the Red Army.
• ...was ordered by Yerevan... Yerevan?
• The Armenian army was ordered by Yerevan to assist the rebels, but an ultimatum by the Red Army—which supplanted the Azerbaijani army following the latter's sovietisation—prompted an Armenian retreat from Nagorno-Karabakh. Introduce the sentence with a reference to the sovietisation of Azerbaijan for a clearer chronology.
• ...accusing Armenia of attacking Azerbaijani settlements Was this indeed only an accusation? Did indeed the Azerbaijani forces accuse the Armenians of attacking Azerbaijani settlements?
• ...11-point... Delete.
• The parliament gave up its rights to the government since Armenia was under state of emergency. Rephrase (The parliament (?) declared a state of emergency, ...)
• Introduce Nersesian.
• ...some months after the Red Army invasion of Azerbaijan in April,... Delete.
• ...Armenia issued an ultimatum to the rebels outside Yerevan some 15 kilometres (9.3 miles) southwest of Yerevan to submit to Armenian rule Rephrase. Who are these rebels? Armenians/Bolsheviks/Muslims?
• ...to form a link with Kemalist Turkey... Some context and explanation?

NPOV issues

There are several POV pushing issues in this article that are so apparent, it is hard to believe some of them are unintentional. One of the most immediately apparent issues is the "38% Muslims" ethnic group; Muslims are not an ethnic group. This is the exact same tactic that Armenian genocide negationists use: merging all Islamic ethnic groups (including Islamic Armenians) into one to make the Armenian population seem smaller than it is. Another major issue is the removal of maps of the republic based on the Treaty of Sèvres. The Sèvres map file had been used in the infobox and the stable version from 2013 to 2023. It was changed relatively recently during an edit war between two users who are now both blocked. There was never any consensus to change the map however, and I believe either the long standing version should be restored or a new consensus should be found before a GA status is possible. There should also be some consistency in format; the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic map includes every territory the republic claimed, even territories it never controlled. The Sèvres map of the Armenian republic was recognised internationally by the League of Nations, while the Azerbaijani republic borders were not. Another concerning difference between the articles is that the Armenian republic has many unofficial languages in the infobox, while the Azerbaijani republic infobox only has Turkic (which 80% of Baku did not speak). To recapitulate, there are recent changes to the article that seem intended to make the republic appear as small and non-Armenian as possible, and there was never any consensus for these changes. Before the GA process goes forward, the stable version should be restored. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 07:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Olympian: your thoughts? I think the above issues (if they are indeed issues) could be fixed easily. Borsoka (talk) 02:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Borsoka, I will address the above:

1. “ "38% Muslims" ethnic group” concern:

(a) The 38% figure for Muslims in the First Republic of Armenia accurately reflects the description given in the cited Encyclopædia Britannica source (see also similar estimates by other sources in the article's population section, including by this journal article). In fact, this exact question was raised over a year ago and answered so it's surprising that it's being brought up again.

(b) Given that the source describes Armenians and Muslims in the same population breakdown, it is difficult to ascertain whether they should be represented as "ethnic groups" or "religious groups". This uncertainty has led to other editors changing the infobox, but I am open to amending it to either with more editors' input.

2. Map concern:

(a) Initially, the current map was added by me nearly two years ago in January 2023 and has formed the stable/consensus version since then; the current map accurately represents the First Republic of Armenia's territory at its peak in mid-1919 according to reliable sources such as UCLA historian Richard Hovannisian, whose works are heavily depended upon in the content of this article.

(b) The previous map sadly contained numerous historic consistencies with respect to its claimed territories, and this is demonstrated by 7 map-related complaints by editors in the article's Talk page: (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6) and (7).

(c) The cited Azerbaijan Democratic Republic article is sadly in a pitiful state and has significant issues, including with its map and lack of spoken/unofficial languages. I have been in the process of rewriting it, but using it as a benchmark for this review is inappropriate and conflicts with WP:OTHERSTUFF.

I hope the explanation is satisfactory, in the meantime, I will continue to address your feedback/remarks above. Thank you for picking up this review. Best, – Olympian ^loquere 06:29, 3 November 2024 (UTC)