Talk:First day of school

Students attend university or higher education. Pupils attend school. This article seems to be of dubious use anyway, but since it's here we should use the correct terminology. Do any editors have an alternative view? Maybe 'student' is correct in some countries, but I know in many it's a kind of politically correct use of the term. MidnightBlue (Talk) 16:23, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi MidnightBlueMan, in my neck of the woods (broadly, in the US), student is a common term for kids of all ages. [1] (PBS is our Public Broadcasting System, which delivers a wide range of educational content.) I agree with you that the article is of dubious use, particularly since it is largely unsourced and since it's not quite clear to me why it's important to know when school starts across the world. But I could be wrong about that. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:10, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Cyphoidbomb. Thanks for the info. I see from the link student seems to be used right across the board in the US. In the UK it used to be just for higher education but is now finding use from age 11, seemingly in an attempt to promote a more mature outlook from the 'pupils'. I guess we would need to get a more global view before changing anything in the article. As for the existence of the article, it doesn't really relate to a subject as such, but it does contain some useful, if largely unverified, information. I'm surprised it hasn't been PRODed before now. Cheers, <fontcolor="DarkBlue">MidnightBlue (Talk) 20:50, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

"Nuke all unref"

Whilst I agree with Staszek Lem that this article is seriously lacking in references, I think much accurate and useful information has been removed by "Nuking" lots of accurate sections that would be very easy to reference. Some are almost "grass is green". Is anyone interested enough to restore them with appropriate references? Why was the United States not nuked? Only the San Diego exception is referenced. Dbfirs 07:07, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

In wikipedia information may be considered "accurate and useful" only if it can be easily verified. I have no way to know that the info about, say, Uruguay was not vandalized by school pranksters. Feel free to nuke the info about the US. I simply went on to delete sections without any refs at all. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

In most cases, it can easily be verified with a quick Google search, but is it worth the effort? Should we just delete the whole article? The information is probably available in better articles on education in each country. Like you, I can't be bothered to check on Uruguay. Dbfirs 18:36, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Let editors from Uruguay (and "uruguayphiles") fill the missing info. As for deletion, the article may be a useful comparison. BTW Education in Uruguay does not say about FDoS. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2018

Viet Nam On September 5th, it is the national day of opening school year. Students need going to school before this day for meeting new classmates, take their arranged schedule. But the official ceremony will be hold on September 5th. Phuongphan9186 (talk) 15:19, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Dolotta (talk) 06:24, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

What to do with this article?

The article has been nominated at AfD. Currently there are only three comments; I reckoned that an article could be written about the customs associated with the start of school in various cultures, but that nothing in the current article was redeemable. WeirdNAnnoyed favoured delete. Last1in is in favour of keep but extensive re-write. ZimZalaBim nominated it and considers it listcruft, presumably based on its current existence as merely a barely-sourced list of what the first date is on which schools re-open in multiple countries.

Basically we're in a situation where the only "keep" wants a complete re-write; I agree that a re-written version might work; and the two deletes want to delete exactly the material that I think should be deleted (which is more-or-less everything, hence their !votes), so although it looks like a split decision, I think we might all be able to agree.

It's generally bad practice to blank an article completely during an AfD, but I'm wondering if this is a rare case where we could reasonably blank nearly the whole thing, and start to re-write from scratch? I've nothing against just letting it get deleted, and hoping someone writes a new article, but I rather fear no one will get round to it.

If we do blank and rewrite, my personal inclination would be to change the aim of the article altogether, and cut all the stuff about which calendar day schools re-open, and instead focus on the cultural associations with starting school. This needn't necessarily always be the first ever day in school as an infant; it could include customs associated with the starts of other school years. It might also be possible to include material from educationalists on how to get kids into school at the beginning of the year (there's a tremendous lot written about the subject). I'm nervous of (a) pre-empting the AfD closure, and (b) effectively hijacking an article for a different purpose without consensus, so I'm inviting comment here. Elemimele (talk) 16:19, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Not only do I think the new focus is a good idea, I think it's essential.

1. The date on which school starts is often trivia, and it's a maintenance nightmare. In the US (unlike countries with more advanced and/or nationalised education), the date differs by state and even by locality. The school and the local paper are often the only sources, and both are considered primary by Wikipedia policy. Those dates also change more years than they remains the same. That said, we can leave the info for countries where the date is steady, stable and reliably sourced.
2. Cultural and even local rituals and customs, on the other hand, are relatively stable. They evolve and change slowly over time. Research and sources exist, and there is 'meat' around which to build an encyclopaedic article.
3. Refocusing adds another important benefit: It opens the horizons of the article. How do teachers manage (or prepare for) the start of the year? What typically happens on the first day in the classroom? What is expected of parents on and before the first day of a term? For countries that perform start-of-year screening, how does that impact the student, the teacher and the classroom? There are a lot more avenues here to build a truly encyclopaedic treatment of the subject.

As for the mechanics of rebuilding the article (if consensus here is forthcoming): The existence of a current AfD is explicitly not a reason to avoid improving or even gutting an article as long as we stay within policy. The AfD policy page itself (as well as any number of essays) strongly recommends exactly that action to prevent deletion.

1. I think the first step is to carefully purge the unsourced material. There is some valid info complete with WP:RS, and we should leave that. I say do this first because that will remove the artificial deadline implied by an AfD (per policy, removing the AfD rationale should procedurally close the process).
2. We should consider engaging the WP:ARS. Editors who participate may have exceptional tips and tricks to make this process smoother.
3. We need to dive into Education in Country X articles. I am not seeing much on first day, but I am seeing sources that might lead us there.

Obviously, I agree with the proposal. Anyone else? Cheers, Last1in (talk) 17:51, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for pinging me in this discussion. I could also support the complete rewrite suggested by Last1in and think it would make the article much more interesting and relevant to many readers. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 18:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Basic details about the general starting timing for schools should just belong in individual Education in Country X articles, as suggested above. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 22:09, 5 September 2023 (UTC)