Talk:Fixed action pattern

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FAP = unconditioned reflex?

Isn't a fixed action pattern the same thing as an unconditioned reflex? See Classical conditioning. EPM 03:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so - for example imagine a fixed action pattern like a goose rolling a displaced egg back to its nest. Now imagine you play a chime just before it sees the egg. Do you think the goose will ever try to roll an invisible egg back to the nest just because it hears a chime?

(I don't know if the goose will emit its FAP when it hears the chime. Could you cite any experimental evidence to say that it wouldn't?)

If this was an 'unconditioned response' it would imply the goose could be conditioned to do such a thing, which seems fairly unlikely to me. It's possible it may learn to expect there to be a missing egg, but I very much doubt it would carry on with the pattern (remember an FAP must proceed to completion) if there was no egg to be rolled. To sum up, they are similar, but not quite the same thing. Richard001 08:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a difficult definition to clarify.

I think that the example of the stickleback changing color is not itself an example of a fixed action pattern, as this is more physiological rather than behavioral. The aggressive responses certainly are. I agree with the example of yawning in humans as a fixed action pattern

(We can suppress yawns, stop mid yawn, and we do not need to be looking at another yawning person to begin yawning. Doesn't this necessitate that yawning is not a fixed action pattern?)

  , although I believe that the vestigial infant grasping is really a reflex. The final example with the copying machine is certainly not a FAP, as the actual "allowing" behavior is likely quite variable. One part of the definition of FAP which needs to be emphasized is that once the sequence begins (after the key stimulus is presented and acknowledged), the pattern must be taken to completion and is not responsive to any further stimuli or changes in the environment. One excellent example of this is how hummingbirds will continue to build a nest with complex weaving movements, even if the thread with which they were intending to weave is stolen and they are really weaving nothing together. Also should be mentioned are supernormal stimuli which can provoke an even stronger response than the natural stimuli; e.g. N. Tinbergen's study of oystercatcher nesting -- they prefer the supernormal 5 egg nest to the normal 3. Socially relevant human examples of this are lipstick (supernormal female lips) and shoulder pads (supernormal male shoulders). 

64.145.175.190 05:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The stickleback example is given in at least one textbook, though it's not really behavioral in the sense of neurons making muscles move. We need a citation for the definition though. Richard001 20:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleted. You may as well call a chameleon's color changed a FAP. --Uncle Ed (talk) 02:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

The stickleback example is in the textbook "Psychology of Motivation" by Sans Aparicio ISBN13 9788492948673 Pg. 106. The original Citation is given there as being Nikolaas Tinbergen (1907 ~ 1988). It is the reaction of the male fish to the colour which is behavioral. I have changed it, I put in the book I got the information from as the citation, rather than the book it itself cites, if it's wrong someone can fix it. The only information I have is the name and dates given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.200.140.111 (talk) 18:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Species typical behaviour?

I'm confused, is this the same as a species typical behaviour? Or is the right place for that typical? Is it such a rare phrase that it doesn't even pop up on Wikipedia? Jack (talk) 22:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

A paragraph to repair

Cut from text:

• 

  Yawning behavior is seen in many animals

Although fixed action patterns are most common and easier to discern in animals with simpler cognitive capabilities, humans are also thought to demonstrate some fixed action patterns. For example, the smile is considered by some researchers to constitute a fixed action pattern. Much research into possible FAPs in humans has centred on stereotype behaviours observable in infants. For example, infant grasping and sucking reflexes in response to tactile stimuli are thought to be FAPs. (see also reflex action). Another FAP shared by some animals, including humans, is yawning, which often triggers yawning in other individuals. Yawns last around 6 seconds and are difficult to stop once initiated. Yawning, whether seen, heard or both, then serves as a releaser in nearby animals.

Neither a yawn nor a smile is much of a FAP. Slapping the shit out of someone who insults you might be. We need to make a distinction between a reflex and a pattern of behavior. I daresay for behavior to have a pattern, you'd have to do more than one thing, and you'd have to do each thing in a rigid sequence. Pulling your hand suddenly away from intense heat counts as one behavior to me. I'd like some examples with 2 or more actions, please. Especially, if someone here has been reading a textbook.

Note: the mere fact that some researchers call it a FAP doesn't help the reader. Either there is a distinction, based on criteria and a threshold, or there isn't. Or are scientists themselves blurring the distinction?

In general, I would like to see better examples. How about a cat hunching down and wagging its tail while watching a mouse? Or a bird taking turns with other birds flying in formation? (And is there really a species of bird that follows wounded or tired birds down to the ground and stays with them until they recuperate?) How about the FAP of some whales or dolphins supporting wounded or tired swimmers (even of other species like humans) to keep them from drowning? All of these have longer or better-coordinated sequences of behavior then skin changing color (which hardly even counts as behavior). --Uncle Ed (talk) 02:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Criticism of the term

I have just deleted the section "criticism of the term". I have done this because the entire section is based on only one web-site article (the Kenyon reference) and I believe gives undue weight to these (non peer-reviewed) statements by a single researcher. If the material is to be re-added, we need an RS source, or at the very least, multiple sources agreeing with these statements.DrChrissy ^(talk) 11:25, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Isn't it kind of unfortunate that the acronym is FAP? Doesn't help that two of the cited authors' last names are Cummings and Alcock.

Yawning cat photo

Someone please restore the yawning cat photo seen above. Thank you.

137.124.161.31 (talk) 02:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Sign Stimulus be merged into Fixed action pattern. This has been done before with a different article of that title, as seen here: [1]. The new article on Sign Stimulus has some examples and sources that could be used to enhance the existing article on Fixed action pattern, but the science does not seem to support the existence of separate articles. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 20:08, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Doomsdayer520 - support, the topics are closely intertwined. There may be scope for a history-of-science article that untangles the topics but in the absence of such work a single article will probably be sufficient. I suggest given the passage of time that boldly doing the merge will be the best thing here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:06, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 12:17, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Disputed

The entire concept is spurious and based on faulty experimental setups, anecdotal "evidence", and (at least in Lorenz' case) probably outright falsification of data. The Lorenz/Tinbergen/Eibl-Eibesfeld mind model is pseudoscience wihtout any neuronal correlates whatsoever, and all of the common FAP/key stimulus examples (gull chicks, stickleback courtship, geese egg-rolling) have been refuted. Without mentioning at least the research of Zippelius and Ewert, this article represents the 1980s opinion; please see the corresponding German Wikipedia article and de:Instinkttheorie#Die_Instinkttheorie_aus_heutiger_Sicht for details. 19:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.182.112.59 (talk)