Talk:Fjäll

Re: Merge with Swedish Mountain

I agree that the Swedish Mountain article should be merged into this article as both articles are about the same breed. Knyzna1 (talk) 16:02, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Merge

I am now going to merge the two articles. They are the same breed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMagikCow (talk • contribs) 08:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

peer Review

Fjäll cattle

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I would really like to get this article up to GA status. I would like somebody to give direction and how it could be improved as I am having trouble finding sources and things to put in.

Thanks, TheMagikCow (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments from JM

Hi TheMagikCow- I'm happy to offer a review. In terms of sources, I think you need to focus more on scholarly journals/books, and less on webpages.

• First, the sources you cite: The university web page may have been OK, but I note that the page seems to be no longer there. Norden's Ark may be OK for some uncontroversial information, but, especially if you're aiming for GAC, it may be better to replace it with a stronger source. The cheese maker has an obvious agenda, and probably is not a good source. It would also be useful to format the sources a little better: Template:Cite web may be useful for this.
• In terms of sources you may want to cite...
  • This article has the breed in the title, but I don't have access to CAB Direct.
  • From doi:10.1080/01426399508706468, p. 142: "The Vikings introduced Fjall cattle to Britain whose descendents, British White Cattle, are found in areas occupied by the Viking invaders, such as East Anglia. These successive invasions forced indigenous Britons to retreat to highland areas with their own breeds of domesticated cattle (Friend and Bishop, 1978). This may seem far removed from contemporary landscapes but today's Welsh Black, West Highland and Kerry cattle are descended from these breeds and are largely confined to the Celtic fringes of the British Isles."
  • There are other hits on Google Scholar, but they look pretty technical.
  • Don't forget to search for the alternative name. That said, this paper suggests that another (extinct) breed goes by that name. Either way, lots of hits on Google Scholar.
  • There's an open access paper here which may well be relevant
  • In terms of further sources... I think you are going to need to seek out hardcopy books on cattle breeds (there'll probably be plenty in any university library where agricultural sciences is taught) and maybe also look for sources not in English. As this is both obscure and not really an Anglophone topic, you may not be able to get far on English-language sources alone.
• You may want to use Template:Infobox cattle breed
• It is not clear from the article whether this is a breed exploited for milk, flesh or something else (we also have categories for this). Surely, this is central information about a breed- what kind of environment? How are individuals used?
• Large Black pig is perhaps an example of what a good breed article would look like.

Hope this is helpful. Sorry I can't be of much more help. Josh Milburn (talk) 17:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments by MJ94

Lede

• I'm not sure the comma is needed after "cattle".
• "The breed was first recognised in the late 19th century but has history back to at least the viking age." Since you just referred to it as a breed in the last sentence, consider using a different title, such as "Fjäll cattle". When, specifically? I would not describe it as "the Viking" age, but if you do, capitalize "Viking".
• In the third sentence, you say "the breed" again. Consider changing this.
• 1000 → 1,000.

History

• "The breed has been around since pre-Viking times." Refer to them as "Fjäll cattle" here; also, when specifically is "pre-Viking" times?
• "They were introduced to Britain when the Vikings came and descended into the British White breed..." The Vikings descended?
• Viking should always be capitalized.
• "Here, they were described as being 'small, hornless, white or whitish grey, often with dark spots." Where is here and by whom were they described as such?
• "The cattle were first officially recognised in 1893." By whom?
• "At this time the average milk production per year was between 1200 and 1400 kilograms and also weighed 300-350 kilograms." Comma after "time", commas in the numbers, and a source is needed here.
• 1970-80 → 1970–1980.
• "In 1970-80 the breed was nearly driven to extinctinction due to extensive cross breeding." The word "breeding" is overused.

Appearance

• "The appearance can vary from being totally white to totally black or red. They are often kept in mountainous areas in Sweden, for dairy produce because of their ability to survive on infertile soil and survive the cold winter." The appearance of what? What is "they"? Please copy edit this sentence for grammar and punctuation.
• This section frequently begins sentences with "they". Consider changing this up a bit.

Overall, the article has a nice start; however, it is in need of a major copy edit. In addition, bare URLs should not be used in the References section. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. MJ94 (talk) 23:20, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments from JM

Hi TheMagikCow- I'm happy to offer a review. In terms of sources, I think you need to focus more on scholarly journals/books, and less on webpages.

• First, the sources you cite: The university web page may have been OK, but I note that the page seems to be no longer there. Norden's Ark may be OK for some uncontroversial information, but, especially if you're aiming for GAC, it may be better to replace it with a stronger source. The cheese maker has an obvious agenda, and probably is not a good source. It would also be useful to format the sources a little better: Template:Cite web may be useful for this.
• In terms of sources you may want to cite...
  • This article has the breed in the title, but I don't have access to CAB Direct.
  • From doi:10.1080/01426399508706468, p. 142: "The Vikings introduced Fjall cattle to Britain whose descendents, British White Cattle, are found in areas occupied by the Viking invaders, such as East Anglia. These successive invasions forced indigenous Britons to retreat to highland areas with their own breeds of domesticated cattle (Friend and Bishop, 1978). This may seem far removed from contemporary landscapes but today's Welsh Black, West Highland and Kerry cattle are descended from these breeds and are largely confined to the Celtic fringes of the British Isles."
  • There are other hits on Google Scholar, but they look pretty technical.
  • Don't forget to search for the alternative name. That said, this paper suggests that another (extinct) breed goes by that name. Either way, lots of hits on Google Scholar.
  • There's an open access paper here which may well be relevant
  • In terms of further sources... I think you are going to need to seek out hardcopy books on cattle breeds (there'll probably be plenty in any university library where agricultural sciences is taught) and maybe also look for sources not in English. As this is both obscure and not really an Anglophone topic, you may not be able to get far on English-language sources alone.
• You may want to use Template:Infobox cattle breed
• It is not clear from the article whether this is a breed exploited for milk, flesh or something else (we also have categories for this). Surely, this is central information about a breed- what kind of environment? How are individuals used?
• Large Black pig is perhaps an example of what a good breed article would look like.

Hope this is helpful. Sorry I can't be of much more help. Josh Milburn (talk) 17:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)