Talk:Flame ionization detector

---

FLAME IONIZATION DETECTOR

la 130.216.191.182 23:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I am working on a new public domain schematic of an FID. I should have it available in a week or so. --Mattj63 19:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

FID base line

i have used FID detector for mor than 7 years and now i have noice in base line idid change to the Detector and i checkd the air purity( burning air) i still have noice what i can do more mohamed ibrahim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.6.37 (talk) 12:11, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

rewrite

A couple quick points -

1. The ref for it being an Australian invention was a link to a Google cache version of a page on gr8ideas.com.au, I can't find that page now.
2. The table of detector types is copied from Skoog, is this a problem?
3. The explanations need polishing throughout - it measures atoms of reduced carbon, but then "the FID is detecting oxidized carbon atoms in ion form".
4. That is one awesome figure. :)

-- Jaeger5432 | Talk 00:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

• "The detection of organic compounds is NOT most effectively done with flame ionization". It is just most used as it is (a lot) cheaper than an MS(Mass Spectrometer) and it is second to the MS as a universal detector. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atrakaz (talk • contribs) 23:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Ionization reaction should be displayed in detail. i.e. how the ionization of hydrocarbon takes place and the formula of ionized hydrocarbons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.93.72.86 (talk) 09:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Corrections to article on FID

The Flame Ionisation Detector (FID) was invented by Ian McWilliam, a recent graduate from Melbourne University with a BSc(Hons) degree, at the Central Research Laboratories of Imperial Chemical Industries of Australia and New Zealand Limited in Ascot Vale, a suburb of Melbourne, Australia in 1957. It was first described at a conference on October 4, 1957 in Cambridge, England (I G McWilliam and R A Dewar, Nature, 161 (1958) 760). The Australian patent to Ian McWilliam is number 224504 lodged on 4th July 1957. Subsequently the FID became the most used detector for gas chromatography and still is. It was licensed to many companies that made gas chromatographs, mainly in England and America. It was NOT invented in CSIRO. The invention, etc was described by Leslie Ettre - The Invention, Development and Triumph of the Flame Ionization Detector - in LC/GC North America 20 (2002) 48-60. Ian McWilliam was awarded a DSc by Monash University in 1974 and was made an Officer in the Order of Australia awards (AO) in 1984.

It was used in gas chromatography for volatile organic compounds. It was not suitable for most biochemical or similar compounds which could not be analyzed by gas chromatography because they are not volatile enough. Any compound which ionized in the flame would give a signal. Compounds to be detected must have both carbon and hydrogen; whether a compound contains sulphur, phosphorus or similar elements is irrelevant.

• Comment by Atrakaz: Many non volatile compounds can be derivatized(chemicaly "broken" and/or changed) to be volotile. May this make biochemical compounds volotile enough?

In my opinion it would be very difficult to correct this article as there are too many mistakes and I believe that it should be rewritten by someone who knows more about gas chromatography and the formation of ions in hydrogen diffusion flames. There is some confusion about the use of liquid chromatography for which the FID is unsuited, although tried. The flame is not a hydrogen/air mixture; it is hydrogen mixed with the carrier gas, normally nitrogen or helium, and the sample components burned in an air environment. The diagrams are very poor and misleading. The mechanism of ion formation which involves CH + O → HCO+ + e- is described by A J C Nicholson and D L Swingler in COMBUSTION AND FLAME 39 (1980) 43-52.

````Dr I G McWilliam, ianmcwilliam@hotmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.144.108.97 (talk) 00:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Fuller detail on those citations, in the hopes that someone can use them to improve the article:

• I'm having a hard time finding the first Nature citation. p. 760 of vol. 161 is issue 4098 what's there is a letter to the editor Molecular Arrangement in Tobacco Necrosis Virus Crystals. Oh, wait, it's volume 181!
• McWilliam, I. G.; Dewar, R. A. (15 March 1958). "Flame Ionization Detector for Gas Chromatography". Nature. 181 (4611): 760. Bibcode:1958Natur.181..760M. doi:10.1038/181760a0.
• Nicholson, A.J.C.; Swingler, D.L. (September 1980). "Ion formation in the flame ionization detector" (PDF). Combustion and Flame. 39 (1): 43–52. doi:10.1016/0010-2180(80)90005-X.
• The Invention, Development and Triumph of the Flame Ionization Detector

Also relevant

• McWilliam, Ian G. (May 1983). "The origin of the flame ionization detector". Chromatographia. 17 (5): 241–243. doi:10.1007/BF02263031.
• https://www.sepscience.com/Techniques/GC/Articles/208-/GC-Solutions-11-The-Flame-Ionization-Detector