Talk:Flying Scotsman (train)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Questions

A few questions that aren't covered by the article:

1) In what year did the FS cease to be a non-stop service? What stops were added at that time (and in subsequent years?)

2) When did the service start running from Glasgow, as opposed to Edinburgh? (I'm guessing early 90s, post-electrification?)

A question related to (1): When did non-stop London-Edinburgh services in general (e.g. The Elizabethan) cease to run?

From a 2006 perspective, running non-stop to Scotland (missing out York and Newcastle!) seems somewhat eccentric, but I can see how it would have made a significant difference to journey times in an era when the train was the only real option for London-Edinburgh travel.

217.155.20.163 10:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I can see that none of these questions have ever been addressed. If we only consider the steam period, did the FS continue to be non-stop on the introduction of the pre-war Coronation and post-war Capitals Limited/Elizabethan services? Another point that is not at all clear here is whether a Flying Scotsman train was running under that name before the 1928 non-stop service.--John of Paris 12:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Anachronism

the Deltic-hauled Flying Scotsman became a centrepiece of British Railways advertising, as it had been for the LNER

Shurely shome mishtake: how could something (a Deltic-hauled Flying Scotsman) which could not possibly have occurred before 1961 have been a centrepiece of the advertising of a company which disappeared on 01.01.1948? -- Picapica 21:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks pretty clear to me--John of Paris 12:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

GNER stock

The Great North Eastern Railway's Flying Scotsman is usually operated by a 'Mallard' InterCity 225, and the journey takes around 4½ hours.

Has the service ever been operated by an InterCity 125 since GNER took over the franchise? GNER do of course still use 125s quite extensively on their network, but I've never seen a GNER 125 do Flying Scotsman duty. 217.155.20.163 23:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe it has been hauled by 89001 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.86.215.119 (talk) 12:45, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Non-stop in the Fifties?

The non-stop Elizabethan left at 9-30. Was there a need for a second non-stop service at 10-00?--John of Paris (talk) 11:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Flying Scotsman (train) centenary poster.jpg

Image:The Flying Scotsman (train) centenary poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

And so children, that's how Wikipedia became the poor sad thing it is today. The nasty bots took away all its prettiest pictures and left it with just lots of writing so nobody goes to visit it any more (except to put naughty words on it) and now it's all lonely out there on the web. Goodnight kiddies.

This user believes that articles are useless without images.

--John of Paris (talk) 21:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"locomotive was named after the train"

Is this correct? My understanding was a racehorse was named after the train and the locomotive was named after the racehorse. The majority of the A1/A3 class were named after racehorses. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 03:54, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

According to the LNER Encylopedia website [1], five A3s - including "Flying Scotsman" - were not named after racehorses.--Mabzilla (talk) 15:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Never come across a racehorse named Flying Scotsman. Which horses were sire and dam; in what year was it foaled; who was the owner; and what races did it win? --Redrose64 (talk) 20:03, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

There is a horse named "Flying Scotsman" on the Registry of racehorse names, registered in 2000. Check [2]. If an earlier racehorse carried this name, it can't have won any major races, or the name couldn't be used again. So there was no outstanding nag for the locomotive to be named after. --Mabzilla (talk) 22:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Looking again at the list of A1/A3s named after racehorses, I found three not permanent on the abovementioned Registry (Victor Wild, Knight of the Thistle and Brown Jack). It's always more difficult to prove a negative than a positive... --Mabzilla (talk) 12:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

According to Boddy et al. 1973, pp. 218-9:

• Victor Wild was owned by Mr. T. Worton and won the 1896 Kempton Park Jubilee Handicap
• Knight of the Thistle was owned by Mr. H. McCalmont and won the 1897 Royal Hunt Cup
• Brown Jack was owned by Sir H. Wernher and won the 1929 to 1934 Queen Alexandra Stakes (? every year?)

According to pp. 72-73 of the same book, all 27 locos built as class A3 were named after racehorses, but of the 52 built as class A1, there were several which were not, including the first three to be built:

• 4470 Great Northern (after the railway company which owned it, and which was about to lose its identity as a constituent of the LNER)
• 4471 Sir Frederick Banbury (last chairman of the G.N. Railway)
• 4472 Flying Scotsman (after the train)
• 2555 Centenary (1925 was the centenary of the Stockton & Darlington Railway, a LNER ancestor)
• 2563 William Whitelaw (first chairman of the LNER)
• 2579 Dick Turpin (see below)

Of these, only one was later renamed: in 1941, the name William Whitelaw was transferred to Class A4 no. 4462, and 2563 became Tagalie after the winner of the 1912 Derby and 2000 Guineas. We also find that five of these six (2579 excepted) were the first of the class to be given names, between 1922 and 1925, and it was not until early 1925 (by which time 45 were in service) that they decided to name the whole class, and chose racehorses.

Regarding 2579: apparently "no eminent racehorse of this name has come to light in our researches", so it would seem to be the name of the highwayman. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:52, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

My contributions above in the debate on the name appear to have been unhelpful. Redrose64 (talk) has cleared up the matter admirably --Mabzilla (talk) 12:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

My original q was directed at the original poster of this thread, and was somewhat rhetorical; I didn't actually expect that such a horse could be found. However, based upon the above, I've added a whole section to List of LNER Class A1/A3 locomotives. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:12, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

New York World's Fair

I see no mention of the Flying Scotsman trainset that came to New York for the World's Fair in 1939, and (IIRC) carried King George VI and Queen Mary on their visit to the US. Am I overlooking something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.127.49.0 (talk) 06:12, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not a visit that I'm aware of. Are you confusing the LNER "Flying Scotsman" with the LMS "Coronation Scot"? Six coaches of the latter (slightly more than half of an eleven-coach trainset), plus two other coaches and a locomotive definitely did visit the USA, being shipped out from Southampton on 20 January 1939; and these did take part in the 1939 New York World's Fair. However, although King George VI and Queen Elizabeth also visited the N.Y. World's Fair, I don't know if they travelled on that train at the time. n.b. Queen Mary was George's mother, and by 1939 they rarely undertook foreign trips together. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:22, 10 July 2011 (UTC)